Break pads , rotors??
03-22-2007, 10:07 AM
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I saved this post by R. Young on pads because it was so good........
Brake Pad Comparison by R. Young of AudiWorld:
Re: Brake pads
Posted by: ryoung on 2004-12-13 21:34:21
Account #: 17157
In Reply to: Pad & rotors...my head is spinning posted by Doug M on 2004-12-13 11:11:02
With one exception, here's about everything I know about the pads that I've personally used on my S8 in the last six years. The exception is the PBR Ceramic, which I have never used, but it's been highly rated by several A8 owners. The 0-10 rating, from street to full race, is my humble opinion.
OEM:
...... Rating = 0
...... Coefficient of friction probably 0.35
...... You can do better !
Ferodo DS2000:
...... Rating = 0
...... cf = 0.42
...... Actually a Federal-Mogul (who owns Ferodo) OEM type compound with Ferodo's name on the box. When overheated, it leaves deposits on the rotor, which then feels like it's warped. I'm not sure if these are still available, but they're not recommended.
SBS Ceramic:
...... Rating = 1
...... cf = 0.38
...... Low dust. The pad becomes slightly compressible when hot, and the resulting soft pedal feels like the brakes need to be bled.
PBR Ceramic:
...... Rating = 2
...... cf = 0.35
...... Good ceramic/kevlar street pad. Below average dust. Good cold friction and should be OK at an autocross. Also called the Axxis Ultimate.
Pagid RS4-2-1 Black:
...... Rating = 2
...... cf = 0.45
...... Excellent high performance street pad, and the OE pad on various models of Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Bugatti. Long wearing and quiet, but moderately dusty. I've never tracked this pad, but it might be OK at an autocross.
Pagid RS4-2 Blue:
...... Rating = 3
...... cf = 0.48
...... Another excellent high performance street pad, though it may squeal slightly when cold. The pad should be fine at an autocross, but it will overheat badly on a road course, where new pads will literally melt away to nothing in 30 minutes.
Ferodo DS2500:
...... Rating = 5
...... cf = 0.50
...... This is the closest thing I've seen to a dual use pad, excellent on the street but also light duty track. Don't be surprised if this pad squeals somewhat on the street when cold.
<<< Pads below this point should be considered "Track Only" >>>
Pagid RS4-4 Orange:
...... Rating = 7
...... cf = 0.52
...... Very good track pad. When it's cold, friction is low, and it squeals like a scalded cat. If the track is well known for being hard on brakes, expect this pad to eventually fade with our heavy high HP cars.
Pagid RS14 Black:
...... Rating = 8
...... cf = 0.57
...... An excellent track pad. This is a ceramic compound with low thermal conductivity, and as a result, it reduces the likelihood of fade from boiling brake fluid. The coefficient of friction peaks at a relatively low 500 oC, but because it falls away gracefully, this pad never really feels like it fades. With it's excellent cold friction, this would be a very good autocross pad. It could even be a good street pad, except that when the pad is cold, rotor wear is extremely high. Since the RS14 is not available for our rear calipers, you should use the Ferodo DS3000 in the rear to maintain brake bias.
Ferodo DS3000:
...... Rating = 9
...... cf = 0.62
...... In every way, an outstanding track pad, and the high cf results in a very firm pedal. Though cold friction is also excellent, don't ever think about using this pad on the street. When cold, I've never heard any pad squeal louder; it's borderline painful. Because the iron content of this compound is >50%, the brake dust is more-or-less corrosive to aluminum wheels and can quickly stain them badly. Even when using these pads only on track, wipe your wheels clean every evening.
And finally, two track only pads that I'd like to try,
1. Pagid RS15 Grey - A ceramic pad similar to the Pagid RS14 but with 20% higher friction and a 100 oC higher maximum operating temperature.
2. Ferodo DS3000 Plus - 10% higher friction, 15% longer pad life, and better release characteristics than the Ferodo DS3000.
Whichever pad compound you select, be sure to use it both front and rear to maintain brake bias and best performance. On the street, I'm currently using and satisfied with the Pagid RS4-2-1 Black, but I prefer the Ferodo DS2500. The "street" pads all have good friction when ice cold, which is sometimes lacking with full race pads. On the track, I currently prefer the Ferodo DS3000.
2001 Audi S8
2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser
Re: Brake pads
Posted by: ryoung on 2004-12-13 21:34:21
Account #: 17157
In Reply to: Pad & rotors...my head is spinning posted by Doug M on 2004-12-13 11:11:02
With one exception, here's about everything I know about the pads that I've personally used on my S8 in the last six years. The exception is the PBR Ceramic, which I have never used, but it's been highly rated by several A8 owners. The 0-10 rating, from street to full race, is my humble opinion.
OEM:
...... Rating = 0
...... Coefficient of friction probably 0.35
...... You can do better !
Ferodo DS2000:
...... Rating = 0
...... cf = 0.42
...... Actually a Federal-Mogul (who owns Ferodo) OEM type compound with Ferodo's name on the box. When overheated, it leaves deposits on the rotor, which then feels like it's warped. I'm not sure if these are still available, but they're not recommended.
SBS Ceramic:
...... Rating = 1
...... cf = 0.38
...... Low dust. The pad becomes slightly compressible when hot, and the resulting soft pedal feels like the brakes need to be bled.
PBR Ceramic:
...... Rating = 2
...... cf = 0.35
...... Good ceramic/kevlar street pad. Below average dust. Good cold friction and should be OK at an autocross. Also called the Axxis Ultimate.
Pagid RS4-2-1 Black:
...... Rating = 2
...... cf = 0.45
...... Excellent high performance street pad, and the OE pad on various models of Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Bugatti. Long wearing and quiet, but moderately dusty. I've never tracked this pad, but it might be OK at an autocross.
Pagid RS4-2 Blue:
...... Rating = 3
...... cf = 0.48
...... Another excellent high performance street pad, though it may squeal slightly when cold. The pad should be fine at an autocross, but it will overheat badly on a road course, where new pads will literally melt away to nothing in 30 minutes.
Ferodo DS2500:
...... Rating = 5
...... cf = 0.50
...... This is the closest thing I've seen to a dual use pad, excellent on the street but also light duty track. Don't be surprised if this pad squeals somewhat on the street when cold.
<<< Pads below this point should be considered "Track Only" >>>
Pagid RS4-4 Orange:
...... Rating = 7
...... cf = 0.52
...... Very good track pad. When it's cold, friction is low, and it squeals like a scalded cat. If the track is well known for being hard on brakes, expect this pad to eventually fade with our heavy high HP cars.
Pagid RS14 Black:
...... Rating = 8
...... cf = 0.57
...... An excellent track pad. This is a ceramic compound with low thermal conductivity, and as a result, it reduces the likelihood of fade from boiling brake fluid. The coefficient of friction peaks at a relatively low 500 oC, but because it falls away gracefully, this pad never really feels like it fades. With it's excellent cold friction, this would be a very good autocross pad. It could even be a good street pad, except that when the pad is cold, rotor wear is extremely high. Since the RS14 is not available for our rear calipers, you should use the Ferodo DS3000 in the rear to maintain brake bias.
Ferodo DS3000:
...... Rating = 9
...... cf = 0.62
...... In every way, an outstanding track pad, and the high cf results in a very firm pedal. Though cold friction is also excellent, don't ever think about using this pad on the street. When cold, I've never heard any pad squeal louder; it's borderline painful. Because the iron content of this compound is >50%, the brake dust is more-or-less corrosive to aluminum wheels and can quickly stain them badly. Even when using these pads only on track, wipe your wheels clean every evening.
And finally, two track only pads that I'd like to try,
1. Pagid RS15 Grey - A ceramic pad similar to the Pagid RS14 but with 20% higher friction and a 100 oC higher maximum operating temperature.
2. Ferodo DS3000 Plus - 10% higher friction, 15% longer pad life, and better release characteristics than the Ferodo DS3000.
Whichever pad compound you select, be sure to use it both front and rear to maintain brake bias and best performance. On the street, I'm currently using and satisfied with the Pagid RS4-2-1 Black, but I prefer the Ferodo DS2500. The "street" pads all have good friction when ice cold, which is sometimes lacking with full race pads. On the track, I currently prefer the Ferodo DS3000.
2001 Audi S8
2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser
04-13-2007, 11:14 PM
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Re: Break pads , rotors??
Hi there! I'm not really familiar with Akebono pads but I have same problem months ago.Then, One of my friend that is a car enthusiast help me and he recommend the <A HREF="http://www.activebrakesdirect.com/ebcbrakepads.html"> EBC Break Pads </A> and <A HREF="http://www.activebrakesdirect.com/ebcrotors.html"> EBC Rotors </A> as well. He asked me to try using it. And that work very well for me.
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