SameerP

My dad has a new 00' A6 2.7T. This weekend i got to spend a significant amount of seat time in it, taking my parents to O'Hare. I got out of his car into mine to drive home, so i got a nice chance to really see the differences.

The 2.7T is nice in that it is effortless. That is what makes the car and engine feel so deceptively strong. With low revs and light pressure on the throttle, the car moves smartly. However, press that pedal and there's not much more acceleration to be had. As i was driving it i was thinking about how Ed Palisoc sometime ago posted about his dilemna to keep his A4 or step into an S4. I have to say that i feel the same way at times, and deep down always have. A nice V6 growl, two little turbos. There are times when i think a S4 would be the ticket.

Getting into my A4, and pulling out, she felt sluggish. Gone was that light growl replaced by the low blatt of a 4 cylinder. That low end grunt was gone. Was this really what i wanted? Was this really more enjoyable?

However, once the car's oil temps reached normal, i began to drive the way i normally do...and gone was that sluggish feeling. I realized that hi-performance 4 cylinders, and turbocharged ones in particular, require more effort, more work...but reward that effort. Keep the turbo on the boil, keep those revs up...pay attention, and you get wonderful performance. It's performance which is only there when you want (granted, for me it's all the time). Damned close to how that 2.7T felt, and far more eager. But be light on the pedal, and you will get 30 mpg.

The idea that getting an S4 would be a better option is really a false one. People like to compare a heavily modded A4 to a stock S4 when thinking money invested, but guess what....S4 owners have to mod heavily as well, and you WILL mod an S4 if you are into performance. The S4 does not improve on the suspension and brakes of the A4. S4 owners are putting in coilovers, new wheels, brake kits, DV valves, chips, hose kits, intakes, exhausts, etc. The only thing missing for them is turbo kits. (at least for now) So getting an S4 is not the way to achieve heavily modded A4 performance with a factory warranty. It's a mod project of its own, a soft executive rocket, which gives you a car with different performance characteristics. Im comforable taking a 27k car and putting 10k into it to make it world class (and it would truly be world class for 10k), but taking a ~42k car and putting 10k into it kinda scares me....those numbers are getting awfully high. Look at the numbers posted at autocrosses by A4's and S4's, you will see they are very close, and that is with the S4's having, typically, +50hp advantage. We all know how easily that HP gap can be bridged.

By the time i pulled into my apartment garage, i felt really good about my A4. I like the little 4 cylinder engine. It's effecient, its durable, and it can make as much power as my wallet can take. Remember this engine block is cast iron, and started life as a diesel. I like the exhaust note, i like the Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Hide nature of a turbocharged engine.

It's no V6/V8. It will not snap your neck from idle. But what it will do is scream at the top end (well, not with a KO3), and deliver massive torque. In college i had a GMC Jimmy with the central port injected Vortec 4.3L V6. It was 200hp/265 torque. Our little motors just chipped are 245 torque, and a turbo kit, even a KO4, will get you to 265+. That is amazing, and that means in the real world, your 4 cylinder is giving up little if any over bigger motors.

Light, agile, fiesty...that describes the A4 in comparison to the S4. One of my close friends who has an A4 is 90% getting an S4 because of the highway revs a 1.8T turns. However, as we saw from Mark P's pics, even 6th in an S4 is not a tall gear...we are turning around 500 more than him at that speed. 4cylinders are made to spin, that is part of their design characteristic. It's no more "hurtful" for a 1.8T to spin at 4k than it is for a 5.7L V8 to to spin at 1700.

Anywho, i guess this post is just a reaffirmation of my appreciation for the A4 1.8T. We've lost so many good guys here to the S4 (Rob O, Mark P, Andy Hedin, LarryV, Waseem, etc) that its natural to wonder what exactly am i doing. I know, im doin the right thing. I love the A4 community. S4 owners, generally, suffer from BMW-ism. You don't see that here, and that is refreshing. That is the reason those guys still hang here frequently.

Sometimes the mod wheel makes me feel like a hamster...you get tired of it. Sometimes you just want to buy a car that is set up perfectly and just enjoy it. Constantly tweaking every system is thrilling and irritating at the same time.

However, that car does not exist, maybe the BMW M3 and Boxster S are the closest to that ideal i see in the mass-produced, readily available car market (please don't go listing Ferraris, etc) But that wheel is something we will run, A4 or S4...so pick which characteristics you prefer in a sports sedan, and have fun.

Cheers

Andy Hedin

<i>The 2.7T is nice in that it is effortless. That is what makes the car and engine feel so deceptively strong. With low revs and light pressure on the throttle, the car moves smartly. However, press that pedal and there's not much more acceleration to be had.</i>

This is true both of a 1.8T and 2.7T engine in "stock" form. Chip either and the top-end will come alive. A chipped S4 is a real monster....trust me ;-)

<i>The S4 does not improve on the suspension and brakes of the A4.</i>

The suspension comment I agree with, but I find the S4 brakes to be superior to the A4 brakes. Yes, if you track the S4 be prepared to warp rotors. But in general, the HP-2 calipers will give stronger braking than the stock A4 brakes.

ColoradoMark

I went back and looked at last weeks results:
My best time was on my first run 60.294. I run BFG g-forces and have my Koni's set full soft on the front and a little stiffer on the rear.

Brad, in his S4 has his Koni's on almost full stiff and has played with his alignment to optimize it. I think he has Kumho tires, not sure.
His best time: 58.612

Another S4, don't know his mods ran 59.953.

I think you're pretty accurate with your observations. I rode in a chipped A4 at a race track that was able to turn faster laps than any of the S4's that were there, but he had been racing since 1964. Smooth!

a4not

Articulate and provocative... two thumbs up! : )

adc

It's a joke, please don't go ballistic on me.

I have to agree with your comments. When I first bought my A4, I was so ecstatic and could hardly believe that it could be improved upon. Then, I got a chip .

But after awhile, I decided that no matter how much I would improve on the A4, I could not get rid of most of the basic shortcomings while at the same time retaining a modicum of original warranty. So I decided to move to the next level and get an E36 M3, following the same reasoning as the last lines in your post.

I feel that if and when I'm ready for more performance, the M3 would make a better starting platform. It's not without faults, of course and I don't want to evangelize on BMW's behalf, but if you're looking for max performance, truly that's the place to start. Well, at least if you want that performance only in the dry .

I would welcome your comments, the quality of this board is truly outstanding. Oh, and is there anyone who can give me a ride in a Stage 3 A4 around the DC area? Maybe in exchange for a ride in the M3 .

adc

Skene @ PES Tuning

i give it.. 2 snaps up in a circle &gt;snap&lt; &gt;snap&lt;

Sal R.

Very nice...elegant as always.

SameerP

Quattro. I live in Chicago...rear wheel drive makes a car a summer toy. Half the year here is inclement, and then you have to deal with the rainy days in summer. If the M3 came in AWD...that would be a painful thing to resist!

I have the Miata as my fun car for the summer. To me, a true sports car will always be better than a GT (which is what a M3 is) Also, far cheaper to work up the Miata, even if i do decide to go with the 230rwhp monster turbo kits for it.

Ive been driving AWD or 4WD all my life. Quattro to me is a real world solution; it allows me to enjoy a car year round. In the rain, i drive like its dry, in the snow, i drive like its wet. Traction control will never give what Quattro does.

But yes, M3's are sweet, any generation of em. At least a big brake kit could be put off alot longer in an M3 My folks have a 89 BMW 325iX, which was a very nice car. Brakes were amazing, tight suspension, nice hefty steering.

The problem with BMW's, present company excluded, is the ownership base here in the US. Generally...id say overwhelmingly...BMW owners buy BMW's for what they say, while Audi owners buy em for what they do. A true BMW enthusiast is a car guy, and i can relate to any car guy. But BMW is the default German car for the young and the pretentious. I get so damned tired of bleached blondes/young males in BMW's on phones in the left lane doing 50mph, that i start to get turned off by the entire marque. Stereotypes derive from some element of truth, sad but true. My disgust for the average BMW owner really clouds the reality that BMW's are extremely sweet, balanced, and well engineered cars. They cost alot to maintain, but that's true for most the premium marques.

I think a great, great project car would be a 89 325is. But i suspect my next project car will be a 83' Mk1 GTI....it keeps calling my name.

I guess its expected that we will mod and fuss over any car we get...that is what people afflicted with what we have do. What was great one day is substandard one year later...i know that's how i am feeling. So maybe its wrong to blame the car, and i should point the finger at me...heh.

Finally, if i were talking M3 money, id rather go with an S4 and mod it I think M3's now are around 50k...id take a 40k S4 and spent the 10k on mods.

Like i always say to my RWD friends: It better be a dry, sunny day on a clean paved road if you want a chance at me.

Cheers

hyakurekken

i used to run a 98 1.8tq-5spd-casa white with:
-H&R coilovers
-bbs rx w/bridgestone so2's, 225/45 r17
-hks klasse
-wett chip
-k&n filter

afterwards, i traded up to an imola yellow s4. now, the increase in straight line performance of the s4 was really tremendous. even w/the chip the 1.8 only mustered sub 7 second 0-60's, so the kick in the pants of running a consistently sub 6 second car was awesome. but the extra heft and size of the s4 really was an overall detriment to it's handling prowess. eventually, i started to kick myself for getting rid of the 1.8. i missed it's light, predictable, suction-cup-to-the-ground handling and engine noise. the s4 just seemed like a german rendition of the american muscle car; fast in a straight line, blundering through the corners. the 1.8 was a much more involving drive. granted, the s4 suspension was completely stock. but i figured even with coilovers, the nose-heavy 3600 pound s4 would never feel like the 3250 pound 1.8.

so now, even after getting rid of the s4 i yearn for my old 1.8t.

the 1.8t a4 is a f*cking awesome car. i envy all you out there.

hemants

Good post, I'm beginning to see you as a car genius