Intercooler setup update: MM hose delete
05-08-2006, 08:46 PM
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Intercooler setup update: MM hose delete
I'm sick of the god damned MM hose. I spoke with Javad and he said I'd be fine with straight silicon couplers... so thats what I'll be doing.
I'm going to run a coupler out of the new intercooler into a j pipe that will run all the way to the intake pipe where it will join with another coupler... metal pipe in place of the MM hose - something tells me I won't be able to pop this guy. Also, at the cost of the Samco unit, this is actually more cost effective.
On the lower piece - I'm going to stick with the stock rubber hose until I blow it apart and then either go with a Samco unit or I'm thinking of fabbing something from metal there too more because of its cost effectiveness and absolute indestructibility than anything else.
For the hose clamps I'm getting the super duty hose clamps (T-bolts?)...
All in all I think I'll be able to wave buh bye to boost leaks and any possibility of blowing off a hose under boost... and boy oh boy isn't that a pleasant thought.
I do have pictures of the custom intercooler setup but I'm still waiting to get them from Timmmy on the motorgeek forum. Soon.
I'm going to run a coupler out of the new intercooler into a j pipe that will run all the way to the intake pipe where it will join with another coupler... metal pipe in place of the MM hose - something tells me I won't be able to pop this guy. Also, at the cost of the Samco unit, this is actually more cost effective.
On the lower piece - I'm going to stick with the stock rubber hose until I blow it apart and then either go with a Samco unit or I'm thinking of fabbing something from metal there too more because of its cost effectiveness and absolute indestructibility than anything else.
For the hose clamps I'm getting the super duty hose clamps (T-bolts?)...
All in all I think I'll be able to wave buh bye to boost leaks and any possibility of blowing off a hose under boost... and boy oh boy isn't that a pleasant thought.
I do have pictures of the custom intercooler setup but I'm still waiting to get them from Timmmy on the motorgeek forum. Soon.
05-09-2006, 03:14 AM
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tbolt or ct clamp
I'm following your progress closely as I hope to do the same thing later this year or next.
Anyway, I've seen some debate regarding which hose clamps to use and I recall someone testing the contant torque clamps and recommended them over the tbolt.
a few part numbers for stock applications
1.125-1.25" I.D. (McMaster: 54205K13, Napa: bk 7051503)
2.25-2.625" I.D. (McMaster: 5325K31, Napa: bk 7051508)
2.75-3.625" I.D. (McMaster: 5325K32, Napa: bk 7051509)
Chi
Anyway, I've seen some debate regarding which hose clamps to use and I recall someone testing the contant torque clamps and recommended them over the tbolt.
a few part numbers for stock applications
1.125-1.25" I.D. (McMaster: 54205K13, Napa: bk 7051503)
2.25-2.625" I.D. (McMaster: 5325K31, Napa: bk 7051508)
2.75-3.625" I.D. (McMaster: 5325K32, Napa: bk 7051509)
Chi
05-09-2006, 08:37 AM
#4
t-bolts are great. if you're blowing those off, WOW.
the stock hoses hold up with stock clamps because there's usually a lip to help hold them on!
if you're doing piping, have timmy weld a bead around the edges.
oh and he has pics up on MG, saw em yesterday. I can't believe how tiny that thing is! i really like the setup though(vertical core), i've been talking about doing that with my next IC for too long now. any pics of how you integrated the core support/snubber?
if you're doing piping, have timmy weld a bead around the edges.
oh and he has pics up on MG, saw em yesterday. I can't believe how tiny that thing is! i really like the setup though(vertical core), i've been talking about doing that with my next IC for too long now. any pics of how you integrated the core support/snubber?
05-09-2006, 11:45 AM
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PHOTOS HERE!
I'm getting Javad to bend some custom pipes and flare out the ends for me.<ul><li><a href="http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9750">PHOTOS</a></li></ul>
05-09-2006, 01:13 PM
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oh... and about its tiny-ness...
because its a vertical intercooler, the flow is dramatically increased. It flows something like 860 CFM - supposedly at least twice to what the stock one does. Instead of the tube and fin, this is a bar and plate - the bars are easily twice as thick as the tubes. I doubt this car will ever see the track, and also, being in NH its not like its spending a lot of time driving in super hot climates. Also, I'm *only* going to ever be pushing about 400 HP crank so this little guy should more than suffice.
It should be more than enough. I'm also killing a number of restrictions... the crossover pipe is no more, the 2 1/4 outlet of the stock intercooler has now become a 2.5 inch outlet. Also, where the MM hose is ribbed which can disrupt airflow - I'm going to a smooth coupler fed directly into stainless steel pipe - so we can eliminate any flow issues there.
Eventually I'll probably go metal with the lower intercooler hose as well - but I'll chill out with what I've got now (arr arr get it?)
Oh... and did I mention, NO MORE PLASTIC!
It should be more than enough. I'm also killing a number of restrictions... the crossover pipe is no more, the 2 1/4 outlet of the stock intercooler has now become a 2.5 inch outlet. Also, where the MM hose is ribbed which can disrupt airflow - I'm going to a smooth coupler fed directly into stainless steel pipe - so we can eliminate any flow issues there.
Eventually I'll probably go metal with the lower intercooler hose as well - but I'll chill out with what I've got now (arr arr get it?)
Oh... and did I mention, NO MORE PLASTIC!
05-09-2006, 01:21 PM
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Core support / snubber
I took off the rubber snubber and noticed the aluminum rod that extends from the motor - its like 2 inches long and makes it a bitch to get an intercooler over. So, I used a hack saw and cut it back by an inch right at the ridge in the cast. Then, using the same hacksaw (the rubber is tough!) I cut the base of the snubber back about half an inch so it would sit flush on the modified metal piece.
I took the bracket from the stock crossmember and unbolted it... then we welded some solid stock to the back of the bracket horizontally to enclose all of the sides except the front - essentially a topless box that the snubber fit into. Then, we welded some metal stock vertically downward into an L that reaches forward onto the new crossmember where it was welded onto. I'll snap some better close ups when I put the new piping in.
Also - if you are thinking about needing a bigger intercooler - there is a TON of space in there - I would think the other vertical treadstone (about 120 bucks more than mine) would fit without much of an issue... and that thing cools passes some serious air.
I took the bracket from the stock crossmember and unbolted it... then we welded some solid stock to the back of the bracket horizontally to enclose all of the sides except the front - essentially a topless box that the snubber fit into. Then, we welded some metal stock vertically downward into an L that reaches forward onto the new crossmember where it was welded onto. I'll snap some better close ups when I put the new piping in.
Also - if you are thinking about needing a bigger intercooler - there is a TON of space in there - I would think the other vertical treadstone (about 120 bucks more than mine) would fit without much of an issue... and that thing cools passes some serious air.
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05-09-2006, 07:52 PM
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Photos of a different setup...
Aerohr, thanks so much for sharing your experience and solution. It is always great to see what solutions others come up with and how they got there. While it may flow better than a stock unit, flow is not necessarily the most important thing. EFFICIENCY is the name of the game so I'd be interested to see the inlet/outlet temps that you see to determine its true effectiveness. I don't have that info for my IA setup but can get the inlet/outlet info for a stock unit if anyone is interested.
Can you flow the air through an intercooler so fast that it doesn't cool it down as much as it would at lower flow rates?
Anyway, I didn't have any pics of my intercooler in car so I asked Alex at IA if he would post some of the pics from the install we did on my car and he posted them to the web for us (link below). As you can see the IA intercooler utilizes ALL the stock mouting points, hoses, and crossover tube. The only non stock component is the hose between the crossover tube and the intercooler (can't re-use the factory O ring setup) It also fills up ALL the available space and still sits in the stock location w/o any obstruction from the bumper. I suppose this helps the ram air effect. I don't have physical dimensions handy but it does look significantly bigger than your version...maybe more like the other treadstone unit you are considering. It is basically stock size, but maybe a little wider/taller and definitely thicker. Anyway, some might call me lazy or uninspired. But I didn't want to go through all the headache of fabricating a custom crossmember, trying to keep the snubber, and finding somebody to weld it all up for me. I figured that if it would take around $500 or $600 and a bunch time and frustration for me to do my own that it would be well worth a couple hundred more for a plug and play solution w/ no car down time to figure things out.
My seat of the pants also told me the new intercooler is much better than the stocker. The car definitely builds boost and power faster than on the stock unit. I can't speak to any HP gains (or lack of power loss after a few romps) as I haven't had money to get to a dyno and my butt isn't sensitive enough for this kind of assessment =)
Phew, too much typing for me.
Pic link http://home.comcast.net/~aneckas/http://home.comcast.net/~aneckas/<ul><li><a href="http://home.comcast.net/~aneckas/">http://home.comcast.net/~aneckas/</a</li></ul>
Can you flow the air through an intercooler so fast that it doesn't cool it down as much as it would at lower flow rates?
Anyway, I didn't have any pics of my intercooler in car so I asked Alex at IA if he would post some of the pics from the install we did on my car and he posted them to the web for us (link below). As you can see the IA intercooler utilizes ALL the stock mouting points, hoses, and crossover tube. The only non stock component is the hose between the crossover tube and the intercooler (can't re-use the factory O ring setup) It also fills up ALL the available space and still sits in the stock location w/o any obstruction from the bumper. I suppose this helps the ram air effect. I don't have physical dimensions handy but it does look significantly bigger than your version...maybe more like the other treadstone unit you are considering. It is basically stock size, but maybe a little wider/taller and definitely thicker. Anyway, some might call me lazy or uninspired. But I didn't want to go through all the headache of fabricating a custom crossmember, trying to keep the snubber, and finding somebody to weld it all up for me. I figured that if it would take around $500 or $600 and a bunch time and frustration for me to do my own that it would be well worth a couple hundred more for a plug and play solution w/ no car down time to figure things out.
My seat of the pants also told me the new intercooler is much better than the stocker. The car definitely builds boost and power faster than on the stock unit. I can't speak to any HP gains (or lack of power loss after a few romps) as I haven't had money to get to a dyno and my butt isn't sensitive enough for this kind of assessment =)
Phew, too much typing for me.
Pic link http://home.comcast.net/~aneckas/http://home.comcast.net/~aneckas/<ul><li><a href="http://home.comcast.net/~aneckas/">http://home.comcast.net/~aneckas/</a</li></ul>
05-10-2006, 05:24 AM
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Nice looking piece, decent price, too.
That is a great option if you don't have the capacity to do your own fabrication. It would be cool to get some temperature readings to compare the two setups - you definitely have more surface area, that is for sure.