Time for a new blower motor
05-07-2003, 01:56 PM
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VERY LONG instructions
Hi! I got this problem lately.
I've searched alot of forums and here what I found. You can find here almost every possible instructions on the replacement process.
HEATER BLOWER REPLACEMENT
Hi gang. Performed a blood (sweat??) sacrifice on the 5kS this weekend - had to fix the A/C blower motor. (Why is it these things crop up when it's 100 F out, not when it's a pleasant 75?)
Symptoms: blower motor doesn't always start, and when it does, it takes its time and is pretty anemic.
Diagnostics: A/C electronics and blower motor control unit check OK per Bentley. Proper voltage present at blower motor connector. The clincher - turned on A/C, fan didn't start, gave fan a kick start through small access panel on drivers side of blower housing, fan starts and runs. Looks like bad bearings or brushes at this point.
Removal of the blower housing is conceptually straightforward, but it's one of those jobs that's just a pain in the ***. There's a fair amount of stuff, most of it under the dash and behind the console that needs to be removed to get that sucker out. Here are a few notes that might be of help to the next poor sap that gets stuck doing this:
- Look at Bentley. Marvel at how something like removing the blower housing can be completely omitted from the book.
- The stuff in the engine compartment is pretty obvious.
There is one vacuum hose and one cable that need to be disconnected. Also the heater core hoses. Remove the wiper motor assembly. You will probably need to cut some zip-ties and move some wiring harnesses.
- I removed the console. In retrospect, you probably don't need to do this, but it's not that hard and it does make getting at the blower housing a lot easier.
- Remove the floor ducts on each side.
- Disconnect the two big round ducts on each side of the housing.
- Disconnect the rubber duct between the housing and trans tunnel (anyone know what this is for?)
- Disconnect the three vacuum lines connected to the actuators mounted on the housing. You don't need to remove the actuators.
- There is a wiring harness that runs through the blower housing. Disconnect this from the main wiring harnesses.
- Remove the housing. This takes a lot of wiggling and some careful application of 3D geometry, but it will come out.
- The motor can now be removed by removing the plenum cover and the circlip at the motor connector. Don't split the blower housing, or you get to figure out how all the air conrol flaps work. (Strangely enough, Bentley does talk about all stuff *inside* the blower housing!)
- Installation, as they say, is the reverse of removal.
In my case, the brushes were worn down to itty-bitty little trapezoids. Got new ones at Home Depot (local home improvement store). They weren't and exact fit, but work nicely.
Hope somebody gets something out of this...
Eric T. '86 5kS
Bill;
If you have never replaced the heater blower motor, it is likely that your problems are caused by worn brushes in the motor. Since these motors run all the time, the brushes only last about 7-8 years.
Remove the plastic plenum cover (it covers the heater box plenum between the base of the windshield and the firewall). You can see the blower motor housing and a right-angle rubber hose connecting the blower motor housing to the heater box. Pull off this hose and look down into the motor. You will be looking at the top brush. If the shunt (the braided copper wire connected to the brush) is at the bottom of the slot in the brush holder, the brushes are worn out. You may be able to restore operation temporarily by pushing down on the brush.
Replacing the blower motor is the cure. It is kind of a "rite-of-passage" for Audi owners.
For the record, here's the fan/blower replacement procedure.
Original from Eric Fletcher, modifications by Frank Bauer (fjb). I have eliminated the references to Eric's famous steak knife, as it's not really required.
Notes I would add:
1) Remove all cable ties which appear to be in your way. The clipped ends on some of them really cut up my hands!!
2) You WILL need split ring pliers to get the split ring/circlip off the end of the fan motor. This ring retains the motor in the blower housing. This is obvious when you see it; it's on the driver's side of the housing. HINT: wait to remove it until you have the heat housing pried upwards. It's MUCH easier to reach then...but DON'T let the split ring fly off to god-knows-where when it comes loose!
3) Protect the fenders while doing this. You will be leaning over them a lot and jean rivets, etc can scratch them easily.
4) The old blower has a plastic cover on the back end. After removing the blower, if there is no plastic cover on the rearmost half of the motor, look inside the blower and make sure the housing has come out - it often sticks inside. If it's there, it will look like three wide fingers pointing toward the open side of the blower housing. Just reach in and pull it out - you can't put the new blower in place till this is removed.
I have also added a few notes to Eric and Frank's comments.
Original from: fjbauer@dsavm.e-mail.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 20:20:26 EDT
Subject: 5000 blower and steak knives
Subject: 5000 blower and steak knives
Here is the post from Eric. I have made a few edits/additions - I just performed this procedure. (My changes marked with "fjb>")
Frank
Eric's post begins...
Well I finally got around to doing the heater blower in my beast. With this method you only have to raise the blower box up about 3 inches, and it can be done in about half an hour.
Al: If you don't have Eric's magic fingers, est. = 2.5 hours.
Tools required:
2 Flat bladed screwdrivers one short and one of the MONDO variety.
1 Short Phillips head screwdriver
10mm socket
13mm socket
3" and 9" extender bar and Ratchet
Outside Snap ring pliers
Remove wiper blades with the 10mm socket.
fjb>It's a 13mm
fjb> watch for the spring washer under the nut when you pop the blades loose.
Remove the black plastic shield with the Audi Logo on it.
fjb> careful popping the clips or you'll crack the shield.
Remove the wiper assembly (one bolt per wiper, one on the motor, one electrical connection) 10mm Socket here; you might want to lube the linkage while it's out....
fjb> You might want to vacuum all the crap out of the area at this point
Al: DO IT!!! There is more crap in there than you'd believe!!
Remove the Heater box Retaining strap with the phillips driver.
Remove the Upper Radiator hose to dump about 1 quart of coolant and reinstall; this will prevent a mess in the next step.
Remove the Heater core supply and return lines.
Remove the Electric plug and Outside Snap ring from the back of the blower motor.
Al: There is also a large washer - don't forget it when putting it back together!
Shove the round Black Blower duct (passenger side) into the heater box.
fjb> ...up to the bellows
Take the small flat bladed screwdriver and run it around the seal on the firewall to loosen it.
fjb> just need to pry it loose here and there - enough so it will move some.
Al: Agreed. It will come loose with a firm, persistent pull....
fjb> now go into the passenger compartment and remove the lower panels, console panels and footwell ducts from both sides. Also remove corrugated ducts for upper vents from both sides. Now everything will move freely enough for the next step.
Take the MONDO Driver and pry between the engine bay firewall and the blower housing to raise the housing 3".
fjb> raise the housing enough so that the Black Blower duct will clear the black A/C heat exchanger box. It may help to do some of this from inside the passenger compartment since there is much left/right clearance here. The blower housing can be tilted up slightly on the passenger side to achieve the necessary clearance.
Al: I did all my prying on the engine side. Careful not to bend the firewall forward of the heater housing, and DON'T pry where the AC tubing is under your prybar!!
With the housing raised take the steak knife and cut the black blower duct so that it can be compressed on itself and slid further into the blower box duct.
fjb> ***skip the last step***
Al: Agreed. It can be shoved back far enough that this is unnecessary - You only have to get it clear of the AC box.
Remove the 2 visible phillips head screws holding the blower duct adapter onto the blower housing.
fjb> Remove all three screws - you may need a long phillips for the lower one.
Al: I don't see how Frank reached this with a long screwdriver. I managed it using a stubby Phillips and prying the heater housing WAY up. If I had needed to, I would have broken the screw free, but it was not necessary. However, I could NOT get the third screw back in when re-installing this part...so I just left it out.
Eric: Take the MONDO screwdriver and break the lower screw out of the blower housing.
fjb>[and Al] ***skip the last step*** Remove the duct adapter.
Remove the blower motor cooling hose.
Push the blower out of the housing through the duct hole.
Install as they say is the reverse of the removal. Use the RTV or Silicone to seal the blower housing back to the firewall. That's it. I did this in Half an Hour by myself in 30F weather.
fjb> skip the RTV part - add 1 hour to your time estimate.
Al: Don't believe them. Allow 2-3 hours. It took me 2.5. And the sealant on the box was sticky enough that I didn't use any RTV - it appeared to me that the seal was still good.
fjb> When lowering and repositioning the blower housing, make sure the oval rubber grommet/hose thingy on the bottom lines up with the opening atop the transmission tunnel.
fjb> muchas garcias to stediric!
Al: Lotsa Dankes to both gents!
Well glad to help as your car is just like mine.
You can either go there "noticed that a nice person gave me this link for my heater blower removal and replacement procedures"
http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/blowerfix.html
or simply read though this
--------------------------------------------------------------
PS: Some of the people mentioned to use a "crowbar" misspelled it I think. Well I have found something else better and will cause almost no damage to the module.
---------Here is how to do it----------------
- Take off the module retainer then use a blade to crack the seal in the firewall area on the upper level of the module
- Remove the centre part in your car where your climate control, tranny arm, stereo is sitting. Once removed just disconnect a few wires, remove the boots on each side of the module.
-Then from the inside of the car, use a wooden baseball bat and gently move the module until it gets free off it's seal and moves nicely "help is required for this section, ask the second person to move it while you try to put it out from the inside".
Once that is done go with your partner in the engine compartment, carefully remove the tube on the passenger side. Once removed, take off all 3 screws on the passenger side of the module. Then, ask your partner to lift the module high enough for you to remove the motor. Forgot to mention that you need to remove the circlip that holds the motor. Once the motor out, just slide your other one in, put the circlip back on the motor, and you know the rest. Putting it back is the reverse of the removal and yada yada yada.
The baseball bat made of wood will less likely crack or damage any wires or your heater module from the inside, but keep in mind not to force it. Or else, you will crack it and have to buy another one. So I figured in the worse case scenario would be 3 hours, well it took me 2:30 hours to replace the fan and put everything back.
Good luck
I've searched alot of forums and here what I found. You can find here almost every possible instructions on the replacement process.
HEATER BLOWER REPLACEMENT
Hi gang. Performed a blood (sweat??) sacrifice on the 5kS this weekend - had to fix the A/C blower motor. (Why is it these things crop up when it's 100 F out, not when it's a pleasant 75?)
Symptoms: blower motor doesn't always start, and when it does, it takes its time and is pretty anemic.
Diagnostics: A/C electronics and blower motor control unit check OK per Bentley. Proper voltage present at blower motor connector. The clincher - turned on A/C, fan didn't start, gave fan a kick start through small access panel on drivers side of blower housing, fan starts and runs. Looks like bad bearings or brushes at this point.
Removal of the blower housing is conceptually straightforward, but it's one of those jobs that's just a pain in the ***. There's a fair amount of stuff, most of it under the dash and behind the console that needs to be removed to get that sucker out. Here are a few notes that might be of help to the next poor sap that gets stuck doing this:
- Look at Bentley. Marvel at how something like removing the blower housing can be completely omitted from the book.
- The stuff in the engine compartment is pretty obvious.
There is one vacuum hose and one cable that need to be disconnected. Also the heater core hoses. Remove the wiper motor assembly. You will probably need to cut some zip-ties and move some wiring harnesses.
- I removed the console. In retrospect, you probably don't need to do this, but it's not that hard and it does make getting at the blower housing a lot easier.
- Remove the floor ducts on each side.
- Disconnect the two big round ducts on each side of the housing.
- Disconnect the rubber duct between the housing and trans tunnel (anyone know what this is for?)
- Disconnect the three vacuum lines connected to the actuators mounted on the housing. You don't need to remove the actuators.
- There is a wiring harness that runs through the blower housing. Disconnect this from the main wiring harnesses.
- Remove the housing. This takes a lot of wiggling and some careful application of 3D geometry, but it will come out.
- The motor can now be removed by removing the plenum cover and the circlip at the motor connector. Don't split the blower housing, or you get to figure out how all the air conrol flaps work. (Strangely enough, Bentley does talk about all stuff *inside* the blower housing!)
- Installation, as they say, is the reverse of removal.
In my case, the brushes were worn down to itty-bitty little trapezoids. Got new ones at Home Depot (local home improvement store). They weren't and exact fit, but work nicely.
Hope somebody gets something out of this...
Eric T. '86 5kS
Bill;
If you have never replaced the heater blower motor, it is likely that your problems are caused by worn brushes in the motor. Since these motors run all the time, the brushes only last about 7-8 years.
Remove the plastic plenum cover (it covers the heater box plenum between the base of the windshield and the firewall). You can see the blower motor housing and a right-angle rubber hose connecting the blower motor housing to the heater box. Pull off this hose and look down into the motor. You will be looking at the top brush. If the shunt (the braided copper wire connected to the brush) is at the bottom of the slot in the brush holder, the brushes are worn out. You may be able to restore operation temporarily by pushing down on the brush.
Replacing the blower motor is the cure. It is kind of a "rite-of-passage" for Audi owners.
For the record, here's the fan/blower replacement procedure.
Original from Eric Fletcher, modifications by Frank Bauer (fjb). I have eliminated the references to Eric's famous steak knife, as it's not really required.
Notes I would add:
1) Remove all cable ties which appear to be in your way. The clipped ends on some of them really cut up my hands!!
2) You WILL need split ring pliers to get the split ring/circlip off the end of the fan motor. This ring retains the motor in the blower housing. This is obvious when you see it; it's on the driver's side of the housing. HINT: wait to remove it until you have the heat housing pried upwards. It's MUCH easier to reach then...but DON'T let the split ring fly off to god-knows-where when it comes loose!
3) Protect the fenders while doing this. You will be leaning over them a lot and jean rivets, etc can scratch them easily.
4) The old blower has a plastic cover on the back end. After removing the blower, if there is no plastic cover on the rearmost half of the motor, look inside the blower and make sure the housing has come out - it often sticks inside. If it's there, it will look like three wide fingers pointing toward the open side of the blower housing. Just reach in and pull it out - you can't put the new blower in place till this is removed.
I have also added a few notes to Eric and Frank's comments.
Original from: fjbauer@dsavm.e-mail.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 20:20:26 EDT
Subject: 5000 blower and steak knives
Subject: 5000 blower and steak knives
Here is the post from Eric. I have made a few edits/additions - I just performed this procedure. (My changes marked with "fjb>")
Frank
Eric's post begins...
Well I finally got around to doing the heater blower in my beast. With this method you only have to raise the blower box up about 3 inches, and it can be done in about half an hour.
Al: If you don't have Eric's magic fingers, est. = 2.5 hours.
Tools required:
2 Flat bladed screwdrivers one short and one of the MONDO variety.
1 Short Phillips head screwdriver
10mm socket
13mm socket
3" and 9" extender bar and Ratchet
Outside Snap ring pliers
Remove wiper blades with the 10mm socket.
fjb>It's a 13mm
fjb> watch for the spring washer under the nut when you pop the blades loose.
Remove the black plastic shield with the Audi Logo on it.
fjb> careful popping the clips or you'll crack the shield.
Remove the wiper assembly (one bolt per wiper, one on the motor, one electrical connection) 10mm Socket here; you might want to lube the linkage while it's out....
fjb> You might want to vacuum all the crap out of the area at this point
Al: DO IT!!! There is more crap in there than you'd believe!!
Remove the Heater box Retaining strap with the phillips driver.
Remove the Upper Radiator hose to dump about 1 quart of coolant and reinstall; this will prevent a mess in the next step.
Remove the Heater core supply and return lines.
Remove the Electric plug and Outside Snap ring from the back of the blower motor.
Al: There is also a large washer - don't forget it when putting it back together!
Shove the round Black Blower duct (passenger side) into the heater box.
fjb> ...up to the bellows
Take the small flat bladed screwdriver and run it around the seal on the firewall to loosen it.
fjb> just need to pry it loose here and there - enough so it will move some.
Al: Agreed. It will come loose with a firm, persistent pull....
fjb> now go into the passenger compartment and remove the lower panels, console panels and footwell ducts from both sides. Also remove corrugated ducts for upper vents from both sides. Now everything will move freely enough for the next step.
Take the MONDO Driver and pry between the engine bay firewall and the blower housing to raise the housing 3".
fjb> raise the housing enough so that the Black Blower duct will clear the black A/C heat exchanger box. It may help to do some of this from inside the passenger compartment since there is much left/right clearance here. The blower housing can be tilted up slightly on the passenger side to achieve the necessary clearance.
Al: I did all my prying on the engine side. Careful not to bend the firewall forward of the heater housing, and DON'T pry where the AC tubing is under your prybar!!
With the housing raised take the steak knife and cut the black blower duct so that it can be compressed on itself and slid further into the blower box duct.
fjb> ***skip the last step***
Al: Agreed. It can be shoved back far enough that this is unnecessary - You only have to get it clear of the AC box.
Remove the 2 visible phillips head screws holding the blower duct adapter onto the blower housing.
fjb> Remove all three screws - you may need a long phillips for the lower one.
Al: I don't see how Frank reached this with a long screwdriver. I managed it using a stubby Phillips and prying the heater housing WAY up. If I had needed to, I would have broken the screw free, but it was not necessary. However, I could NOT get the third screw back in when re-installing this part...so I just left it out.
Eric: Take the MONDO screwdriver and break the lower screw out of the blower housing.
fjb>[and Al] ***skip the last step*** Remove the duct adapter.
Remove the blower motor cooling hose.
Push the blower out of the housing through the duct hole.
Install as they say is the reverse of the removal. Use the RTV or Silicone to seal the blower housing back to the firewall. That's it. I did this in Half an Hour by myself in 30F weather.
fjb> skip the RTV part - add 1 hour to your time estimate.
Al: Don't believe them. Allow 2-3 hours. It took me 2.5. And the sealant on the box was sticky enough that I didn't use any RTV - it appeared to me that the seal was still good.
fjb> When lowering and repositioning the blower housing, make sure the oval rubber grommet/hose thingy on the bottom lines up with the opening atop the transmission tunnel.
fjb> muchas garcias to stediric!
Al: Lotsa Dankes to both gents!
Well glad to help as your car is just like mine.
You can either go there "noticed that a nice person gave me this link for my heater blower removal and replacement procedures"
http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/blowerfix.html
or simply read though this
--------------------------------------------------------------
PS: Some of the people mentioned to use a "crowbar" misspelled it I think. Well I have found something else better and will cause almost no damage to the module.
---------Here is how to do it----------------
- Take off the module retainer then use a blade to crack the seal in the firewall area on the upper level of the module
- Remove the centre part in your car where your climate control, tranny arm, stereo is sitting. Once removed just disconnect a few wires, remove the boots on each side of the module.
-Then from the inside of the car, use a wooden baseball bat and gently move the module until it gets free off it's seal and moves nicely "help is required for this section, ask the second person to move it while you try to put it out from the inside".
Once that is done go with your partner in the engine compartment, carefully remove the tube on the passenger side. Once removed, take off all 3 screws on the passenger side of the module. Then, ask your partner to lift the module high enough for you to remove the motor. Forgot to mention that you need to remove the circlip that holds the motor. Once the motor out, just slide your other one in, put the circlip back on the motor, and you know the rest. Putting it back is the reverse of the removal and yada yada yada.
The baseball bat made of wood will less likely crack or damage any wires or your heater module from the inside, but keep in mind not to force it. Or else, you will crack it and have to buy another one. So I figured in the worse case scenario would be 3 hours, well it took me 2:30 hours to replace the fan and put everything back.
Good luck
05-08-2003, 07:01 AM
#3
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good instructions
with long instructions, you can tell that it is a nasty job. I have done it three times on my '86. It gets easier with practice, but still aggravating.
The real problem is that the motor brushes wear out. They must have beem the cheapiest that Audi could find from a supplier. Climate fan motors on other cars don't wear out as fast as they do on an Audi. It is possible to buy new brushes and repair the motor. I found an Ace Hardware store that has the brushes, so you may want to keep your old motor, put in new brushes, and keep it for a spare. Regards, Rooster
The real problem is that the motor brushes wear out. They must have beem the cheapiest that Audi could find from a supplier. Climate fan motors on other cars don't wear out as fast as they do on an Audi. It is possible to buy new brushes and repair the motor. I found an Ace Hardware store that has the brushes, so you may want to keep your old motor, put in new brushes, and keep it for a spare. Regards, Rooster
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