Observations on my 2012 TT RS
05-30-2012, 12:39 PM
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Observations on my 2012 TT RS
Observations on my 2012 TT RS
The car has been widely reviewed with most drivers impressed by its performance. In my view, if you’re looking for a daily driver, it’s hard to beat. With all wheel drive it can handle 4 seasons, gas mileage is good, seats are superb for all-day driving, the hatchback and storage area are really convenient (my dog loves it in there), it has two small seats for kids in a pinch, and it zips around like a Teutonic terror. Reminds me of my Porsche 993 twin turbo. Just broke it in at 1500kms and we’re scheduled for our track on June 18th. Very much wanted the TTRS for our short, tight, local track whereas I reserve my Ferrari 458 Italia for the bigger venues.
So far, I draw attention to three issues for discussion.
TIRES: Audi, or owners, should replace the stock tires (Toyo Proxies T1 Sport) with ‘Michelin Pilot Super Sport’ tires. Research by Tire Rack reports the Michelin Pilot Super Sport is superior to the Toyo Proxies on both dry and wet. Had the Pilot Sport's been on the car when 'Road and Track' did their skid pad test, I suspect the TTRS would have done better than its .95 rating. Personally, I thought that rating was on the low side (.97 would have been more realistic IMHO) for an all wheel drive car that distributes 50% of torque to both front and rear wheels, even if the car suffers a tad from oversteer at the extreme margin.
Also compelling is the Super Sport's weight at 24lbs vs. 26 for the Toyo Proxies. Two pounds difference per tire is significant. Imagine the mass of the wheel rotating at 100 mph. It's a giant flywheel that does not want to move. The less mass you have there, the easier and more responsive it is, as well as to accelerate to get the wheel moving or braking to get the wheel stopping. Replacing the Toyos with the Super Sport’s would translate into a decrease of unsprung weight the engine has to move by 48 lbs. This weight difference is attributable to 2lbs per wheel X 4 wheels X a 'rule of thumb' multiplier of 6 lbs for every pound of reduced unsprung weight.
BRAKES: While the brakes on the TTRS are more than capable – same brakes as R8 on the front – mine have screeched and squealed for the entire time I’ve had the car. That means ear shattering screeches, people looking at me hundreds of times, and a brake in period of annoying, embarrassing noise rather than pure driving pleasure. Apparently, Audi HQ is aware of this problem because it affects many TT RSs and they’ve heard about it. But I’m annoyed (a) I wasn’t informed in advance, and (b) that a technical advisory hasn’t been issued. This is my first Audi, and I’ll definitely downgrade my quality rating of them for this lacuna.
To tackle the problem, I tried bedding (or seeding) the brakes by doing sets of 10 runs up to 100km, then braking hard to 10km. Squeaking went away for a day, then returned. Next I did a 650 Km drive through mountain passes with lots of firm braking. Squeaking went away for 2 days, then returned. Finally, did crazy backward runs in parking lots, apply brakes both firmly (like trail braking) then really hard. Every time I do this, squeaking goes away immediately, but then returns, but fortunately in a less severe way in a day or two. At 1500kms, still too many screeches for me to tolerate. Are the OEM brake pads too hard? Can’t tell if its front or rear. Does this suggest dysfunctionality that will affect me on the track.
Instrument location mistake: The designers decided to place three key buttons – one for sport mode, one for CST stability control, one for hazards – at the base of the stick shift. When the driver extends his/her right arm to grip the shift ****, the bottom of the driver’s fist is hovering just above those three buttons. On 8 occasions, the bottom of my hand has inadvertedly deactivated the CST stability control, and on 6 occasions I’ve inadvertedly activated the hazard lights. Those buttons are in the wrong place and are susceptible to being activated by the driver’s shifting hand if it at all wavers from aiming directly for the shift ****. As I said, 8 times for me with potentially perilous results in the mountain passes had I needed CST control to help me out of a squeeze.
How does it do on the track? Looking forward to finding out.
The car has been widely reviewed with most drivers impressed by its performance. In my view, if you’re looking for a daily driver, it’s hard to beat. With all wheel drive it can handle 4 seasons, gas mileage is good, seats are superb for all-day driving, the hatchback and storage area are really convenient (my dog loves it in there), it has two small seats for kids in a pinch, and it zips around like a Teutonic terror. Reminds me of my Porsche 993 twin turbo. Just broke it in at 1500kms and we’re scheduled for our track on June 18th. Very much wanted the TTRS for our short, tight, local track whereas I reserve my Ferrari 458 Italia for the bigger venues.
So far, I draw attention to three issues for discussion.
TIRES: Audi, or owners, should replace the stock tires (Toyo Proxies T1 Sport) with ‘Michelin Pilot Super Sport’ tires. Research by Tire Rack reports the Michelin Pilot Super Sport is superior to the Toyo Proxies on both dry and wet. Had the Pilot Sport's been on the car when 'Road and Track' did their skid pad test, I suspect the TTRS would have done better than its .95 rating. Personally, I thought that rating was on the low side (.97 would have been more realistic IMHO) for an all wheel drive car that distributes 50% of torque to both front and rear wheels, even if the car suffers a tad from oversteer at the extreme margin.
Also compelling is the Super Sport's weight at 24lbs vs. 26 for the Toyo Proxies. Two pounds difference per tire is significant. Imagine the mass of the wheel rotating at 100 mph. It's a giant flywheel that does not want to move. The less mass you have there, the easier and more responsive it is, as well as to accelerate to get the wheel moving or braking to get the wheel stopping. Replacing the Toyos with the Super Sport’s would translate into a decrease of unsprung weight the engine has to move by 48 lbs. This weight difference is attributable to 2lbs per wheel X 4 wheels X a 'rule of thumb' multiplier of 6 lbs for every pound of reduced unsprung weight.
BRAKES: While the brakes on the TTRS are more than capable – same brakes as R8 on the front – mine have screeched and squealed for the entire time I’ve had the car. That means ear shattering screeches, people looking at me hundreds of times, and a brake in period of annoying, embarrassing noise rather than pure driving pleasure. Apparently, Audi HQ is aware of this problem because it affects many TT RSs and they’ve heard about it. But I’m annoyed (a) I wasn’t informed in advance, and (b) that a technical advisory hasn’t been issued. This is my first Audi, and I’ll definitely downgrade my quality rating of them for this lacuna.
To tackle the problem, I tried bedding (or seeding) the brakes by doing sets of 10 runs up to 100km, then braking hard to 10km. Squeaking went away for a day, then returned. Next I did a 650 Km drive through mountain passes with lots of firm braking. Squeaking went away for 2 days, then returned. Finally, did crazy backward runs in parking lots, apply brakes both firmly (like trail braking) then really hard. Every time I do this, squeaking goes away immediately, but then returns, but fortunately in a less severe way in a day or two. At 1500kms, still too many screeches for me to tolerate. Are the OEM brake pads too hard? Can’t tell if its front or rear. Does this suggest dysfunctionality that will affect me on the track.
Instrument location mistake: The designers decided to place three key buttons – one for sport mode, one for CST stability control, one for hazards – at the base of the stick shift. When the driver extends his/her right arm to grip the shift ****, the bottom of the driver’s fist is hovering just above those three buttons. On 8 occasions, the bottom of my hand has inadvertedly deactivated the CST stability control, and on 6 occasions I’ve inadvertedly activated the hazard lights. Those buttons are in the wrong place and are susceptible to being activated by the driver’s shifting hand if it at all wavers from aiming directly for the shift ****. As I said, 8 times for me with potentially perilous results in the mountain passes had I needed CST control to help me out of a squeeze.
How does it do on the track? Looking forward to finding out.
05-31-2012, 04:27 AM
#2
Interesting observations. The Toyos seem to be ok on the street in most instances but loose their luster on the track pretty quickly from what track rats have shared. The recent discussion have surrounded lowering the pressure and doing a 3psi stagger...32F; 29R seems to be the prevailing wisdom.
The brakes...damn them! Mine squeaked incessently for the first couple thousand miles. I did all the same short term remedies as you to no avail. Now I'm at 6700 and they are quiet as a mouse. Prevailing wisdom here is to switch pads if it bugs you. I persevered and tried to brake harder to avoid the squeak during the creeping to stop method.
I haven't hit a single button below the shift **** on accident. Maybe I sit higher than you, but this has never happened to me.
Mine is now tuned with GIAC stage 2 to maximize my exhaust and FMIC upgrades and runs like a scalded cat! 415hp/419tq...what a hoot!
The brakes...damn them! Mine squeaked incessently for the first couple thousand miles. I did all the same short term remedies as you to no avail. Now I'm at 6700 and they are quiet as a mouse. Prevailing wisdom here is to switch pads if it bugs you. I persevered and tried to brake harder to avoid the squeak during the creeping to stop method.
I haven't hit a single button below the shift **** on accident. Maybe I sit higher than you, but this has never happened to me.
Mine is now tuned with GIAC stage 2 to maximize my exhaust and FMIC upgrades and runs like a scalded cat! 415hp/419tq...what a hoot!
05-31-2012, 05:37 AM
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Rubber is king in my book. I don't have any need for all-seasons, thankfully, so summer rubber options are mine!
I just put a set of Pilot Super Sports on (255/35-19) and, frankly, they're not that great. The grip is fine and the noise level quite acceptable, but the precision just isn't there. With pressures high enough to get acceptable steering response, the ride in sport mode is a bit harsh and the handling in normal is still soft.
I can't say it isn't a good tire, but it is a step down from the (discontinued) Goodyear F1 GS-D3 it replaced. I'll ride them out to the next change, but I won't buy them again.
I just put a set of Pilot Super Sports on (255/35-19) and, frankly, they're not that great. The grip is fine and the noise level quite acceptable, but the precision just isn't there. With pressures high enough to get acceptable steering response, the ride in sport mode is a bit harsh and the handling in normal is still soft.
I can't say it isn't a good tire, but it is a step down from the (discontinued) Goodyear F1 GS-D3 it replaced. I'll ride them out to the next change, but I won't buy them again.
06-06-2012, 04:06 PM
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Observations x2
I have had my TT RS for a few months and have done 3 track days.
My car is my crap weather Daily Driver and weekend track toy. I have a SC Range Rover Sport for family duties and an Aston Martin Vantage V12 as my "toy" (though I drive that car to work often in the summer). I give you that context because it obviously colors my view of the car and how I use it. Your use might mean this car is better or worse for you.
As a DD it's hard to beat. Very easy to drive around town, no issues with where to park, it draws almost mo negative attention, you can make it into most driveways and it narrow for city streets. The light clutch is a blessing in heavy traffic. Add to that all the cargo space and sight lines and it's a real winner.
The engine is a real gem. It has plenty of power and torque spread across a wide band. You always have power on your corner exits. The engine note is great, angry at pace. It's a fizzy sort of a motor with the 5 pot. Lots of character and a real pleasure to experience. I prefer it to the 6 in my old Boxster S.
As good as the motor is,nits too quiet, even with the sport exhaust. Should be better, Porsche has the advantage here. Their sport exhausts have a killer note. Audi does not get exhaust notes at all, my friends R8 V10 has the same problem.
The steering feel is awful at low speeds. It weights up fine at speed. It's not delicate like a Porsche or the Aston, but it does the job and won't let you down. It makes the car feel heavier than it is. I'm sure some people read that as confidence inspiring.
The interior is great compared to most, but I feel Audi phoned it in. It's certainly not the best the racing arm could have done. The fundamentals are good, everything works and the materials are high quality.
There are some areas that are just plain sub par:
The brakes are just simply a joke. In 2700 kms and three track days I have burned through the stock pads and two sets of rotors. The second set lasted one morning at the track. My first Aston did two track days and didn't even need the pads replaced until after 14,000 kms. The UK guys have all found work arounds. I changed the Pads to Pagid blues and the squeaking went away,and put in high temp brake fluid.
Next step was a proper set of directional Loba Racing, two piece rotors (AP racing discs, Loba hat). This should fix the useless stock rotors (Audi only designed one, meaning one side does not even cool itself)
The calipers should be okay, if not I will go to the Loba kit with the monster Gallardo 6 pot sized units.
The tires are the next issue. I luckily burned through the Toyo's quickly. I installed a set of Yokohama AD08's, they changed the car immediately. So much more keen to turn in. They also took more than a second and a half off my time (closing the gap with the Cayman). The factory should have put a proper set of tires on the car, though I'm sure it would challenge the R8 too much.
I did a track alignment (not radical at all) and a Haldex mod (competition model). This really changed the car's attitude. It became far less understeery. For the first time it felt very alive on the track. That rear end would easily swing around, though not in the same fluid way as a RWD car. For some this might not be ideal, but I loved it and the car got faster and way more engaging.
Even with a V12 Vantage in the driveway, I love the times I take the TT RS out.
My car is my crap weather Daily Driver and weekend track toy. I have a SC Range Rover Sport for family duties and an Aston Martin Vantage V12 as my "toy" (though I drive that car to work often in the summer). I give you that context because it obviously colors my view of the car and how I use it. Your use might mean this car is better or worse for you.
As a DD it's hard to beat. Very easy to drive around town, no issues with where to park, it draws almost mo negative attention, you can make it into most driveways and it narrow for city streets. The light clutch is a blessing in heavy traffic. Add to that all the cargo space and sight lines and it's a real winner.
The engine is a real gem. It has plenty of power and torque spread across a wide band. You always have power on your corner exits. The engine note is great, angry at pace. It's a fizzy sort of a motor with the 5 pot. Lots of character and a real pleasure to experience. I prefer it to the 6 in my old Boxster S.
As good as the motor is,nits too quiet, even with the sport exhaust. Should be better, Porsche has the advantage here. Their sport exhausts have a killer note. Audi does not get exhaust notes at all, my friends R8 V10 has the same problem.
The steering feel is awful at low speeds. It weights up fine at speed. It's not delicate like a Porsche or the Aston, but it does the job and won't let you down. It makes the car feel heavier than it is. I'm sure some people read that as confidence inspiring.
The interior is great compared to most, but I feel Audi phoned it in. It's certainly not the best the racing arm could have done. The fundamentals are good, everything works and the materials are high quality.
There are some areas that are just plain sub par:
The brakes are just simply a joke. In 2700 kms and three track days I have burned through the stock pads and two sets of rotors. The second set lasted one morning at the track. My first Aston did two track days and didn't even need the pads replaced until after 14,000 kms. The UK guys have all found work arounds. I changed the Pads to Pagid blues and the squeaking went away,and put in high temp brake fluid.
Next step was a proper set of directional Loba Racing, two piece rotors (AP racing discs, Loba hat). This should fix the useless stock rotors (Audi only designed one, meaning one side does not even cool itself)
The calipers should be okay, if not I will go to the Loba kit with the monster Gallardo 6 pot sized units.
The tires are the next issue. I luckily burned through the Toyo's quickly. I installed a set of Yokohama AD08's, they changed the car immediately. So much more keen to turn in. They also took more than a second and a half off my time (closing the gap with the Cayman). The factory should have put a proper set of tires on the car, though I'm sure it would challenge the R8 too much.
I did a track alignment (not radical at all) and a Haldex mod (competition model). This really changed the car's attitude. It became far less understeery. For the first time it felt very alive on the track. That rear end would easily swing around, though not in the same fluid way as a RWD car. For some this might not be ideal, but I loved it and the car got faster and way more engaging.
Even with a V12 Vantage in the driveway, I love the times I take the TT RS out.
06-17-2012, 04:11 AM
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Same brake noise as mine, im sure "Engineers are working the problem"..ha! Audi doesn't get-it or they would not take nearly a year to figure this out. Whoever is responsible for this fix, should have their butt kicked! I love the brand but, not as much as I did last September before my new squeak/squeal mobile arrived. The car is great if you don't try to stop. Real high performance car owners just "smile" at you when you stop close to them.
06-22-2012, 05:51 PM
#6
Rubber is king in my book. I don't have any need for all-seasons, thankfully, so summer rubber options are mine!
I just put a set of Pilot Super Sports on (255/35-19) and, frankly, they're not that great. The grip is fine and the noise level quite acceptable, but the precision just isn't there. With pressures high enough to get acceptable steering response, the ride in sport mode is a bit harsh and the handling in normal is still soft.
I can't say it isn't a good tire, but it is a step down from the (discontinued) Goodyear F1 GS-D3 it replaced. I'll ride them out to the next change, but I won't buy them again.
I just put a set of Pilot Super Sports on (255/35-19) and, frankly, they're not that great. The grip is fine and the noise level quite acceptable, but the precision just isn't there. With pressures high enough to get acceptable steering response, the ride in sport mode is a bit harsh and the handling in normal is still soft.
I can't say it isn't a good tire, but it is a step down from the (discontinued) Goodyear F1 GS-D3 it replaced. I'll ride them out to the next change, but I won't buy them again.
My experiences with the PSS's have been less than impressive.
06-22-2012, 05:56 PM
#7
Observations on my 2012 TT RS
The car has been widely reviewed with most drivers impressed by its performance. In my view, if you’re looking for a daily driver, it’s hard to beat. With all wheel drive it can handle 4 seasons, gas mileage is good, seats are superb for all-day driving, the hatchback and storage area are really convenient (my dog loves it in there), it has two small seats for kids in a pinch, and it zips around like a Teutonic terror. Reminds me of my Porsche 993 twin turbo. Just broke it in at 1500kms and we’re scheduled for our track on June 18th. Very much wanted the TTRS for our short, tight, local track whereas I reserve my Ferrari 458 Italia for the bigger venues.
The car has been widely reviewed with most drivers impressed by its performance. In my view, if you’re looking for a daily driver, it’s hard to beat. With all wheel drive it can handle 4 seasons, gas mileage is good, seats are superb for all-day driving, the hatchback and storage area are really convenient (my dog loves it in there), it has two small seats for kids in a pinch, and it zips around like a Teutonic terror. Reminds me of my Porsche 993 twin turbo. Just broke it in at 1500kms and we’re scheduled for our track on June 18th. Very much wanted the TTRS for our short, tight, local track whereas I reserve my Ferrari 458 Italia for the bigger venues.
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06-22-2012, 06:03 PM
#8
I have had my TT RS for a few months and have done 3 track days.
My car is my crap weather Daily Driver and weekend track toy. I have a SC Range Rover Sport for family duties and an Aston Martin Vantage V12 as my "toy" (though I drive that car to work often in the summer). I give you that context because it obviously colors my view of the car and how I use it. Your use might mean this car is better or worse for you.
Even with a V12 Vantage in the driveway, I love the times I take the TT RS out.
My car is my crap weather Daily Driver and weekend track toy. I have a SC Range Rover Sport for family duties and an Aston Martin Vantage V12 as my "toy" (though I drive that car to work often in the summer). I give you that context because it obviously colors my view of the car and how I use it. Your use might mean this car is better or worse for you.
Even with a V12 Vantage in the driveway, I love the times I take the TT RS out.
We must do tea and crumpets some time.
(are these guys for real?) lol
06-23-2012, 08:50 AM
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I can relate to all above post - I started off with a couple of V8s and a V12 when I was looking for something a little subtle though with performance and is mid-tier prestige and the TT-RS fulfilled that gap back in 2009. Yeah, the V8s were first to go and recently the V12 was also sold.
I can think of no better car to jump in and play for a mediocre driver as I am and it is 'cheap' fast motoring that is really hard to beat...even after 3-years and nearly 40k miles am enjoying it. For me the stealth look works for me...it looks like just another TT...though the SLS and 997 Turbo Cab drivers would think twice before play on the next encounter!!!
Anyway, it is a great little car which, as per OP observations, is fun to get on track with.
I can think of no better car to jump in and play for a mediocre driver as I am and it is 'cheap' fast motoring that is really hard to beat...even after 3-years and nearly 40k miles am enjoying it. For me the stealth look works for me...it looks like just another TT...though the SLS and 997 Turbo Cab drivers would think twice before play on the next encounter!!!
Anyway, it is a great little car which, as per OP observations, is fun to get on track with.
06-25-2012, 04:52 AM
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We must do tea and crumpets some time.
(are these guys for real?) lol[/QUOTE]
Yep we are for real.
Each car has its own sweet spot. The TT RS though much less expensive is a fun place to be. It's far more useful day to day and while it can't compete at the exotic level as an experience or an object, it is 90% of the fun for 30% of the price.
Since owning a TT RS and an exotic is beyond the means of most people, I thought people might like to hear from someone who has both. It's a great car, not just a great car for the money. Once you fix the brakes, Haldex etc, it's an even more fun car with proper durability.
My V12 can't really do rain (Corsa's tires) or winter, or big parking lots,, or much of the street parking available,
or...
My SC RR is for family hauling and big stuff
My TT RS is a blast all year round, on any road. That's why it's the winter car, because it can. It's the track car because parts are available and not too expensive.
Hard to beat.
Tea and crumpets is fine. Beer and crisps works too.
(are these guys for real?) lol[/QUOTE]
Yep we are for real.
Each car has its own sweet spot. The TT RS though much less expensive is a fun place to be. It's far more useful day to day and while it can't compete at the exotic level as an experience or an object, it is 90% of the fun for 30% of the price.
Since owning a TT RS and an exotic is beyond the means of most people, I thought people might like to hear from someone who has both. It's a great car, not just a great car for the money. Once you fix the brakes, Haldex etc, it's an even more fun car with proper durability.
My V12 can't really do rain (Corsa's tires) or winter, or big parking lots,, or much of the street parking available,
or...
My SC RR is for family hauling and big stuff
My TT RS is a blast all year round, on any road. That's why it's the winter car, because it can. It's the track car because parts are available and not too expensive.
Hard to beat.
Tea and crumpets is fine. Beer and crisps works too.