Go Back   AudiWorld Forums > Audi Models > Audi A6 / S6 / RS 6 > A6 / S6 (C5 Platform) Discussion
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

Notices

A6 / S6 (C5 Platform) Discussion Discussion forum for the C5 Audi A6 and S6 produced from 1998-2004

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-14-2014, 08:03 PM   #1
acarney
AudiWorld Member
Account #: 170662
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 279
Default CRAP! Camshaft moved?! Possible to figure out TDC again?!

So I followed the Blauparts directions PERFECTLY but either one of the cams moved when I was CAREFULLY pulling off the belt OR it moved when I was inserting the tool (which was a little tricky, I almost thought the 3 peice tool was bent but then it finally slid on after a bit of force). I'm no longer confident that one didn't move slightly, 10 to 20 degrees maybe? Everything looked dead center when I started the job. Both large holes in the sprocket were pointing toward the center and I inserted the crank lock pin... The directions didn't say to make any marks and I figured I was ok since I got all the rented tools. I'm doing the valve cover gasket... Will there be any way to verify it's TDC when I pull the cover off? Will I be able to double check or ensure it before I put things together? Did I just completely screw this whole job over?? :-/

I thought I was doing everything perfect and read their directions and each step many times before preceding...

Audi a6 2.7t...
acarney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 08:53 PM   #2
acarney
AudiWorld Member
Account #: 170662
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 279
Default

@#&!!! I was using the 3 prong sprocket puller tool and VERY slowly turning the screw to apply pressure and the WHOLE cam sprocket just suddenly lurched a full quarter of a turn!!! HOW THE HELL did that happen!? I took like 10 minutes to line the puller up so all three prongs were latching on (which was NOT easy) and then very slowly started turning the screw. The screw was dead center on the bolt that was in the sprocket (broke free when the cam lock bar was on and then loosened by hand about four turns)!! Now I can feel some force on the sprocket, it will not easily rotate back to the position where the large hole is pointing level towards the center of the engine. I haven't forced it at all... did I just completely destroy my car?? Just spent $5000 on college tuition and $1000 on parts from Blauparts. If I just destroyed my car it looks like I'll be walking everywhere for the next year or so....

I followed these instructions perfectly, I was so gently with everything, it's taken me about four days just to get to this point because I double and triple read each step and made sure to skip nothing and that everything was in place properly. How did this get screwed up so bad?! If this puller is applying rotational force to the sprocket WHY isn't there a way to do it with the cam lock bar still on?! This has me so completely beat and depressed. Is there any coming back from this?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg photo-6.jpg (63.7 KB, 86 views)

Last edited by snagitseven; 01-17-2014 at 07:28 PM.
acarney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 02:16 AM   #3
masterblaster2013
Audiworld Junior Member
Account #: 223677
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 30
Default

Put the lower toothed belt cover in place (the one that sits behind the idler pulley) and the idler pulley. The TDC marks are a line on the idler pulley and a line on the cover that line up at the one o'clock position. Those lined up then you can insert the crank lock pin.
masterblaster2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 03:00 AM   #4
4Driver4
Tech Guru
Account #: 43812
 
4Driver4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 33,041
Default

This is minor. Cams moving a few degrees is common due to forces exerted by the valve springs. You have to set cam timing at the end anyway.
Don't sweat it. Use the locking bar to rotate the cam back into alignment. Easy.
__________________
4Driver4

Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

2005 A6 Sedan Q 3.2 (wife's whip)
2000 A4 Avant Q 2.8 (daily driver)
1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
2003 Mini Cooper S (just because)
1995 Mazda Miata, Superdupercharged(anti-Audi)
1999 Mazda Miata SSB (track beotch, no plate)
2003 GMC Yukon Denali XL (the anti-earth)
2004 Dodge Dakota (hey, at least it's stick and 4x4)
4Driver4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 05:20 AM   #5
tester123
AudiWorld Member
Account #: 171699
 
tester123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 487
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acarney View Post
I was using the 3 prong sprocket puller tool and VERY slowly turning the screw to apply pressure and the WHOLE cam sprocket just suddenly lurched a full quarter of a turn!!!
I had the same panic when it happened to me. Don't worry about it. The cams are under valve spring tension so, when the belt is not there with sprockets tight on cams, they'll move when you disturb it even slightly.

Simple thing is to put the diamond plate back on and use the cam locking bar to turn. Alignment of cam notches with bearing cap arrow marks is the most important thing (along with crankshaft locked at tdc). Then you are good to go.

I asked many related questions and they might help you. Do an advanced search for "Cam" and user as "tester123".

4Driver4 is right. Actually, he is the one who suggested this when I was working on my car... Thanks to you buddy!
__________________
ʘ˥ Pearl White А6 Ч.2ℓ Quattro
Sport, cold, everything -Nav.
▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫
No more OIL or COOLANT leaks! │ T-Belt, Water pump & Valve Covers DONE! │ Trans & Diff Fluid DONE! │ Bearing & Inner Tie-rod Next │ Steering leaks?
Fuel Banks 1 & 2 Lean issue fixed (finally!)
Rebuild Bosch 150 Amp Alternator (save major $$$)

Last edited by snagitseven; 01-17-2014 at 07:31 PM.
tester123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 07:33 AM   #6
acarney
AudiWorld Member
Account #: 170662
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 279
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tester123 View Post
I had the same panic when it happened to me. Don't worry about it. The cams are under valve spring tension so, when the belt is not there with sprockets tight on cams, they'll move when you disturb it even slightly.

Simple thing is to put the diamond plate back on and use the cam locking bar to turn. Alignment of cam notches with bearing cap arrow marks is the most important thing (along with crankshaft locked at tdc). Then you are good to go.

I asked many related questions and they might help you. Do an advanced search for "Cam" and user as "tester123".

4Driver4 is right. Actually, he is the one who suggested this when I was working on my car... Thanks to you buddy!

Is there a trick to using the 3 pronged puller to get it lined up on the center of that bolt? I feel like the little metal thing that has the small and large hole was getting in the way and causing it to not center with the bolt. It took a long time to try and hold it and slowly hand screw it till it got centered and then use a ratchet to start to turn the screw more and pow, the whole sprocket jumped like that. Also, can I pull the sprocket loose WITH the cam lock bar in place so it doesn't turn?

The sprocket feels like it has some tension now too. When I try to turn it counterclockwise back to its proper position I'm getting what feels like some spring resistance... Should I need to use a bit of force to tuen it back? Is it safe to do?

Finally. The crank lock pin has been in this whole time.
acarney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 08:10 AM   #7
4Driver4
Tech Guru
Account #: 43812
 
4Driver4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 33,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acarney View Post
Is there a trick to using the 3 pronged puller to get it lined up on the center of that bolt?
I'm not a fan of the puller. I usually unscrew the bolt a few turns (2 or 3) then strike it with a hammer as if I am trying to drive it back in. This pops off the sprocket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acarney View Post
I feel like the little metal thing that has the small and large hole was getting in the way and causing it to not center with the bolt.
If you are using the puller and it is in the way, take the bolt out, remove the alignment plate (the wing thing) and then put the bolt back in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acarney View Post
Also, can I pull the sprocket loose WITH the cam lock bar in place so it doesn't turn?
You can, but you probably don't need to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acarney View Post
The sprocket feels like it has some tension now too. When I try to turn it counterclockwise back to its proper position I'm getting what feels like some spring resistance... Should I need to use a bit of force to tuen it back? Is it safe to do?
You are fighting valve spring tension. That's what made it turn in the first place. Leave it alone until you need to turn it back to align the belt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acarney View Post
Finally. The crank lock pin has been in this whole time.
Good.

I hope you are planning on doing all the cam related seals as part of this job. If you skip things like the cam adjuster seals, you'll be sorry later.
__________________
4Driver4

Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

2005 A6 Sedan Q 3.2 (wife's whip)
2000 A4 Avant Q 2.8 (daily driver)
1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
2003 Mini Cooper S (just because)
1995 Mazda Miata, Superdupercharged(anti-Audi)
1999 Mazda Miata SSB (track beotch, no plate)
2003 GMC Yukon Denali XL (the anti-earth)
2004 Dodge Dakota (hey, at least it's stick and 4x4)
4Driver4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:21 AM   #8
tester123
AudiWorld Member
Account #: 171699
 
tester123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 487
Default

This Video might give you some insight (not the same engine, still...)
__________________
ʘ˥ Pearl White А6 Ч.2ℓ Quattro
Sport, cold, everything -Nav.
▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫
No more OIL or COOLANT leaks! │ T-Belt, Water pump & Valve Covers DONE! │ Trans & Diff Fluid DONE! │ Bearing & Inner Tie-rod Next │ Steering leaks?
Fuel Banks 1 & 2 Lean issue fixed (finally!)
Rebuild Bosch 150 Amp Alternator (save major $$$)
tester123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:33 AM   #9
tester123
AudiWorld Member
Account #: 171699
 
tester123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 487
Default

If you are up to here it doesn't make sense not to do the Cam seals, End caps and chain tensioner gaskets + Valley (half-moon) seals. Yeah a little more work but, you'll be glad you did them unless they are done recently or you look forward eagerly towards the next tear down. Just my opinion...

Be warned that removing tensioner requires removing cam bearing caps and there is a good chance the chain links may skip. It's not a big deal, you can always count the links and put it back. The notches on CAMS have to match the Arrow markings on bearing caps. There are good write-ups about this. Some have done it without pulling the cams out. I tried but it was more hassle than worth so, I pulled them off. Plus, I wanted to clean everything thoroughly before the new gaskets and seals go in... it's up to you. Just know that the Cam timing has to be perfect if you go this route.

FYI, each head is independent of its own timing - what I mean by that is the exhaust and intake cams have to be aligned so, you work on one head at a time. Make sure that is aligned properly and work on next. Finally, the belt ties the timing of heads and crankshaft together. Makes sense?
__________________
ʘ˥ Pearl White А6 Ч.2ℓ Quattro
Sport, cold, everything -Nav.
▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫
No more OIL or COOLANT leaks! │ T-Belt, Water pump & Valve Covers DONE! │ Trans & Diff Fluid DONE! │ Bearing & Inner Tie-rod Next │ Steering leaks?
Fuel Banks 1 & 2 Lean issue fixed (finally!)
Rebuild Bosch 150 Amp Alternator (save major $$$)
tester123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:45 AM   #10
tester123
AudiWorld Member
Account #: 171699
 
tester123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 487
Default

Here is a previous post that might help:
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthre...5#post24523295
from this thread:
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2858374
__________________
ʘ˥ Pearl White А6 Ч.2ℓ Quattro
Sport, cold, everything -Nav.
▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫▫
No more OIL or COOLANT leaks! │ T-Belt, Water pump & Valve Covers DONE! │ Trans & Diff Fluid DONE! │ Bearing & Inner Tie-rod Next │ Steering leaks?
Fuel Banks 1 & 2 Lean issue fixed (finally!)
Rebuild Bosch 150 Amp Alternator (save major $$$)
tester123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:45 AM
AudiWorld
Audi R8




Paid Advertisement
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
28, 99, a6, audi, camshaft, disturbed, ecs, engine, make, marks, passat, screw, sproket, tdc, tfsi


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:10 AM.


Copyright 2014 AudiWorld.com Audi Enthusiast Community

Personal Contacts