Go Back   AudiWorld Forums > Technical Discussion > Motors > 12v V6 Discussion
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

Notices

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-22-2013, 11:00 AM   #1
byzanzmetalic
AudiWorld Newcomer
Account #: 272450
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3
Default 2.8L V6 12v Supercharger?

Okay. Thanks for CrazyRussian's and Twentysevenliter's responaes...respectively were:

"u got my attentions.. details, where are you located?
ive done some digging around on ppl installing a supercharger on our cars, but that was years ago, and cant remember much anymore"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"You're probably better off starting your own thread with that question.
There's a lot of bad blood over the mythical Motodyne one.
And perhaps you could introduce yourself and explain your interest in potential markets for superchargers...

"There may be a market, but not at the $6k+ PES charges.
The 12V is a dying breed, moreso in the 'States than here in Australia.
But even here they're becoming less common. England has a little revival going with some late model 80s and early A4s judging by the forums there.I would have been interested maybe 4-5 years ago, but I'm looking the let the old girl go now!"
-------------------------------------------------------

To answer some questions from Twentysevenliters...
1) What is my interests in this?

2) Where am I located?

1)(Answer) I found a custom kit that was no longer wanted for use in another Audi 2.8L SOHC V6 12v engine application. This person decided to use a different engine and setup in his older Audi. I purchased the components he kindly offered to sell to me and now I am in process of getting ready to install it in my 97 Audi A6 wagon. It is a setup with a centrifugal SC. Yes, I know the arguments against a centrifugal SC but it's easier to impliment and one does not have to manufacture a hole new intake manifold for a screw type SC. I already sourced a piggyback ECU years ago and have a marked up wiring diagram to splice into my PCM harness. This will enable me to adjust settings to deal with the relitively mild forced induction situation I will be dealing with. Claims were 250 bhp with mild boost pulley setup but my numbers suggest it with be more like 218 - 230 bhp. I have been looking for years to find a legitimate SC kit and now I have it. I just need to make it work with our stock MAF/PCM systems. Once/if I prove out my setup I just wanted to know if I should just enjoy it for myself, or if there are still others like me who would be interested in such a kit. I would offer different levels of completeness, from just offering the custom bracket and tube induction bits with recommendations as to what to buy for the SC, intercooler, and piggyback ECU, etc, to offering a a complete kit. Regardless, which kit though, it would still be purchaser's responsibility to wire in piggyback ECU and get setup tuned on a dyno. I think these two options could help people decide how much money to spend on such a kit. People more savy who may have their own superchargers on hand and so on, could do this for less. I said a lot here, so I need to stop. Thanks everyone, for any interest if so.

2)(Answer) I live in southern NH.


Regards.
byzanzmetalic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2013, 02:14 PM   #2
twentysevenlitres
AudiWorld Member
Account #: 112888
 
twentysevenlitres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 409
Default

Glad you took my advice on the new thread, that explains a lot and was a good intro.

If I was planning on keeping the A4 for a few more years, I would certainly be interested in a few more ponys! The 12V are pretty robust and I think they could handle a small amount of boost without too much stress.

The PES G1 (no longer manufactured but had a 12V application) was a Roots/Screw type blower which was side-mounted on the engine in a similar manner to the centifugal type.
Obviously not as compact. I think the centifugal type has great merit from a fitment viewpoint.

I reckon a kit is an excellent idea for keeping costs down, and many guys contemplating this would be hands on anyway!
__________________
Cheers,

Marty

Current:
2001 Audi S8
- Solar Sunroof, heated front and rear seats (just what you need in Australia!) Tinted side and rear glass, RNS-D, XCarLink, Bose, clunky old phone in arm rest!
1997 Audi A4Q - Hamilton's Club Sport, 5sp Manual, full leather, Sunroof, ASA AR1 17's (set of BBS RX201 17's spare), Clarion CD/MP3 red display with custom mounted 12 stacker in boot.
1986 Holden Calais - Velour (very 80's), 5.0 V8 (Holden 304), Trimatic, Simmons F90 16's, project car (at least it was 6 years ago...)


twentysevenlitres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2013, 10:00 PM   #3
CRAZY_RUSSIAN
AudiWorld Super User
Account #: 153887
 
CRAZY_RUSSIAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque,NM
Posts: 2,214
Default

hmmm most of us can source out our own chargers for a reasonable price, also, 034 can do a custom chip for MMS200 ECU, also you can get bigger CC injectors which should help with providing fuel. i think its everything else thats been holding us back. not all of us have the time and or facility to fabricate custom brackets and pulley system. So, if you are willing to put couple of different levels kits together, i would go for it to get me in the right direction
__________________
1993 Audi 90CS Quattro (loving it)
*(suspension and brakes)034 derling control arm bushings + alum-subframe bushings, 034 street density trans mounts+JHM SOLID” Short Throw shifter. B5 rear sport swaybar, B5 upper a-arms, solid VAP shock mounts + B&G springs + Bilstein sport shocks. EBC 3D front rotors + EBC green pads front and rear. 17" ASA's, head lights, aux gauges. blue plasma instrument cluster, A4 3 spoke steering wheel.
*(engine)replaced a motor at the end of 2008, gasket matched heads, ARP head studs, air box velocity stack, 4 to 3 wire MAF conversion, 18.5lbs flywheel with SPEC stage 2 clutch.
1975 VW bus (gone)
1973 VW Super Beetle (what was i thinking?)
1968 VW Bug (my pride and joy)
*2.5 inch front drop and disk brake conversion, *2110cc motor (in progress)new wiring harness,3 inch wider fenders all around, 195/45r15 front and 195/65r15 rear tiers
1991 GMC Sonoma RWD, manual, 4 banger (gone)
1979 Suzuki GS750EN with 31k original miles
1981 Suzuki GS750L (will be on a chopping block for a bobber)
1981 Yamaha XV920
1983 Yamaha XV750 (for g.f.)
1985 Dnepr MT10-36 (stolen)
1992 Dnepr MT11-32 (also stolen)
CRAZY_RUSSIAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 06:14 AM   #4
ByzanzCabrio
AudiWorld Newcomer
Account #: 274300
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3
Default Interested

Hi, I'm thinking of installing a Rotrex Supercharger in my 2.8/12v and currently working out what I need.

What I'm trying to get more info on is the kind of boost pressure our engines will take safely, (I'm guessing less than 10psi?), at what HP will I need to consider larger injectors, and what piggyback ecu options are there out there to manage this?

I have a reasonable amount of experience with turbo upgrades and ecu re-mapping on my old Nissan Skyline, but this is a whole new challenge
ByzanzCabrio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 08:25 AM   #5
CRAZY_RUSSIAN
AudiWorld Super User
Account #: 153887
 
CRAZY_RUSSIAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque,NM
Posts: 2,214
Default

here are some of the specs on the 2.8l / 169in3 / 2771cm3 displacement
Maximum output: 174bhp DIN (128kW) @ 5500rpm
Maximum torque: 250Nm (184ft. lbs.) @ 3000rpm
Maximum engine speed: 6700rpm
Bore: 3.25in / 82.5mm
Stroke: 3.40in / 86.4mm
Compression ratio: 10.3:1
Accurate fuel metering by means of a heated-wire
air mass sensor
Dual stage multi-path intake manifold
Short intake path: 380mm
Long intake path: 780mm

so yeah, you cant run much on the boost unless you lower the compression. on the ECU, i would probably go with a stand alone or some sort of A/F calibrator
__________________
1993 Audi 90CS Quattro (loving it)
*(suspension and brakes)034 derling control arm bushings + alum-subframe bushings, 034 street density trans mounts+JHM SOLID” Short Throw shifter. B5 rear sport swaybar, B5 upper a-arms, solid VAP shock mounts + B&G springs + Bilstein sport shocks. EBC 3D front rotors + EBC green pads front and rear. 17" ASA's, head lights, aux gauges. blue plasma instrument cluster, A4 3 spoke steering wheel.
*(engine)replaced a motor at the end of 2008, gasket matched heads, ARP head studs, air box velocity stack, 4 to 3 wire MAF conversion, 18.5lbs flywheel with SPEC stage 2 clutch.
1975 VW bus (gone)
1973 VW Super Beetle (what was i thinking?)
1968 VW Bug (my pride and joy)
*2.5 inch front drop and disk brake conversion, *2110cc motor (in progress)new wiring harness,3 inch wider fenders all around, 195/45r15 front and 195/65r15 rear tiers
1991 GMC Sonoma RWD, manual, 4 banger (gone)
1979 Suzuki GS750EN with 31k original miles
1981 Suzuki GS750L (will be on a chopping block for a bobber)
1981 Yamaha XV920
1983 Yamaha XV750 (for g.f.)
1985 Dnepr MT10-36 (stolen)
1992 Dnepr MT11-32 (also stolen)
CRAZY_RUSSIAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 03:52 PM   #6
CRAZY_RUSSIAN
AudiWorld Super User
Account #: 153887
 
CRAZY_RUSSIAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque,NM
Posts: 2,214
Default

well, i just purchased an m62 to mount in to my B4... ow boy... wish me luck
http://motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f...ercharging+12v
__________________
1993 Audi 90CS Quattro (loving it)
*(suspension and brakes)034 derling control arm bushings + alum-subframe bushings, 034 street density trans mounts+JHM SOLID” Short Throw shifter. B5 rear sport swaybar, B5 upper a-arms, solid VAP shock mounts + B&G springs + Bilstein sport shocks. EBC 3D front rotors + EBC green pads front and rear. 17" ASA's, head lights, aux gauges. blue plasma instrument cluster, A4 3 spoke steering wheel.
*(engine)replaced a motor at the end of 2008, gasket matched heads, ARP head studs, air box velocity stack, 4 to 3 wire MAF conversion, 18.5lbs flywheel with SPEC stage 2 clutch.
1975 VW bus (gone)
1973 VW Super Beetle (what was i thinking?)
1968 VW Bug (my pride and joy)
*2.5 inch front drop and disk brake conversion, *2110cc motor (in progress)new wiring harness,3 inch wider fenders all around, 195/45r15 front and 195/65r15 rear tiers
1991 GMC Sonoma RWD, manual, 4 banger (gone)
1979 Suzuki GS750EN with 31k original miles
1981 Suzuki GS750L (will be on a chopping block for a bobber)
1981 Yamaha XV920
1983 Yamaha XV750 (for g.f.)
1985 Dnepr MT10-36 (stolen)
1992 Dnepr MT11-32 (also stolen)
CRAZY_RUSSIAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 02:50 AM   #7
twentysevenlitres
AudiWorld Member
Account #: 112888
 
twentysevenlitres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 409
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZY_RUSSIAN View Post
Compression ratio: 10.3:1

so yeah, you cant run much on the boost unless you lower the compression. on the ECU, i would probably go with a stand alone or some sort of A/F calibrator
Yeah, you need to watch that 10:1 compression ratio when boosting, go too high and you'll get pre-detonation!
__________________
Cheers,

Marty

Current:
2001 Audi S8
- Solar Sunroof, heated front and rear seats (just what you need in Australia!) Tinted side and rear glass, RNS-D, XCarLink, Bose, clunky old phone in arm rest!
1997 Audi A4Q - Hamilton's Club Sport, 5sp Manual, full leather, Sunroof, ASA AR1 17's (set of BBS RX201 17's spare), Clarion CD/MP3 red display with custom mounted 12 stacker in boot.
1986 Holden Calais - Velour (very 80's), 5.0 V8 (Holden 304), Trimatic, Simmons F90 16's, project car (at least it was 6 years ago...)


twentysevenlitres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 05:10 AM   #8
ByzanzCabrio
AudiWorld Newcomer
Account #: 274300
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3
Default

Good luck Crazy Russian!
I'd be interested to find out what psi you are looking to run?
will you install a pressure release valve to stop it over boosting?
ByzanzCabrio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 10:59 AM   #9
CRAZY_RUSSIAN
AudiWorld Super User
Account #: 153887
 
CRAZY_RUSSIAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque,NM
Posts: 2,214
Default

im going to target for about 8-10psi. and yes, i will absolutely have to tun a blow off valve. im hoping to mount it in place of the intake. but the guy will ship it out on monday, and i will do some playing around with it. anyways, i will start a full build thread on this one when i get the time to do this project, but before i tackle this i need to get 2 motorcycles in road worthy condition
__________________
1993 Audi 90CS Quattro (loving it)
*(suspension and brakes)034 derling control arm bushings + alum-subframe bushings, 034 street density trans mounts+JHM SOLID” Short Throw shifter. B5 rear sport swaybar, B5 upper a-arms, solid VAP shock mounts + B&G springs + Bilstein sport shocks. EBC 3D front rotors + EBC green pads front and rear. 17" ASA's, head lights, aux gauges. blue plasma instrument cluster, A4 3 spoke steering wheel.
*(engine)replaced a motor at the end of 2008, gasket matched heads, ARP head studs, air box velocity stack, 4 to 3 wire MAF conversion, 18.5lbs flywheel with SPEC stage 2 clutch.
1975 VW bus (gone)
1973 VW Super Beetle (what was i thinking?)
1968 VW Bug (my pride and joy)
*2.5 inch front drop and disk brake conversion, *2110cc motor (in progress)new wiring harness,3 inch wider fenders all around, 195/45r15 front and 195/65r15 rear tiers
1991 GMC Sonoma RWD, manual, 4 banger (gone)
1979 Suzuki GS750EN with 31k original miles
1981 Suzuki GS750L (will be on a chopping block for a bobber)
1981 Yamaha XV920
1983 Yamaha XV750 (for g.f.)
1985 Dnepr MT10-36 (stolen)
1992 Dnepr MT11-32 (also stolen)
CRAZY_RUSSIAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2014, 12:42 AM   #10
ByzanzCabrio
AudiWorld Newcomer
Account #: 274300
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZY_RUSSIAN View Post
im going to target for about 8-10psi. and yes, i will absolutely have to tun a blow off valve. im hoping to mount it in place of the intake. but the guy will ship it out on monday, and i will do some playing around with it. anyways, i will start a full build thread on this one when i get the time to do this project, but before i tackle this i need to get 2 motorcycles in road worthy condition
Do you know what engine management system you are going to use? if there is a pressure release valve on the inlet side then I'm guessing you may be thinking of replacing the MAF with a MAP sensor based system?
I was just reading an article on installing a wastegate on the inlet side in order to allow the Centrifugal SC to spool up quicker in order to give more torque lower down the rpm range - which is an interesting concept
ByzanzCabrio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2014, 12:42 AM
AudiWorld
Audi R8




Paid Advertisement
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
12v, 28, a6, audi, audio, build, built, custom, ecm, intake, manifold, sohc, stand, supercharged, supercharger, swap


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:45 AM.


Copyright 2014 AudiWorld.com Audi Enthusiast Community

Personal Contacts