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Old 12-12-2013, 10:35 AM   #1
balla4lyfe4421
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Default Torque converter

Ok so I am wondering if my torque conveyor is going, ok so when I'm driving I saw the Rpms Bounce a little it has only happened twice for a very brief time and I cannot replicate it myself. Maybe lasted a minute tops. I could just be going crazy and might all be in my head

Figuered I'd see if any other forum members can give me their two cents
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:09 PM   #2
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Does it happen when cold? I saw mine bounce a little bit but after the car warmed up a bit, things worked just fine. This was last night when it was -5F or so. Shifts are surprisingly smooth for a really cold car though.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:10 PM   #3
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Try changing the ATF and a carbon cleaning.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:57 PM   #4
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Taking the limited diagnosis ability of the Internet into account; it is difficult to be sure or even sometimes get pointed in the right direction. Had a 3.2 on 6AT 2004 Touareg that had a similar rpm flair issue. Only had 56K on it. Changed the fluid, but the flair was still there. Rather than jump to the torque converter, I decided to change the valve body with a rebuilt unit for about $700 as a measure that was a reasonable high potential remedy, since the solenoids on some of the transmissions used on SOME units across the VW/Audi/Porsche line up have a spotty history. The re-builder uses Sonnex valves on their units. To make a long story short, the car performed stoutly afterwards without rev flair, clunking, or downshift issues. To be honest, the car never felt stronger after upgrade. Used Valvoline Max life as an alternative to the gold people purchase on their tranny fluid changes. Yes, it is factory spec and comparable to the liquid gold some guys insist on using purchased from the dealer.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:55 PM   #5
ajg617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balla4lyfe4421 View Post
Ok so I am wondering if my torque conveyor is going, ok so when I'm driving I saw the Rpms Bounce a little it has only happened twice for a very brief time and I cannot replicate it myself. Maybe lasted a minute tops. I could just be going crazy and might all be in my head

Figuered I'd see if any other forum members can give me their two cents
I have the same problem with my 06 A6 Avant. It only happens when cold started in the morning and coasting down hill with no pressure on brake or accelerator pedals. I spoke with ZF technical folks in IL and they told me that a fluid change would not likely help (though they still recommend it every 60K miles). What they did say is that they believe the problem is electronic in nature and that the vanes in the converter are moving which is what is causing the 200RPM bounce I get and feel that the brakes are being applied every second or so. What causes the vanes to cycle they didn't hazard a guess.

I also spoke with a ZF authorized rebuilder in Connecticut. What that tech said is they are having some very unique issues with that tranny that are only solved by replacing the torque converter. Unlike the C5 tranny design flaw which caused a significant number of converter failures, this trans is relatively solid. But the ones they do get back are problematic, impossible to diagnose, and just plain strange and not just with Audis.

Both ZF and the CT company said they didn't think it meant imminent failure of the converter. Their suggestion was just live with it until something fails and if it bothers me to drop a gear manually to get engine back pressure or apply light brake. In my case, the bounce disappears if I do either. I personally plan on changing the fluid and the filter in the near future however.

I also spoke with
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:48 PM   #6
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When the opinion of the "experts" ends in a defacto "we don't know" or "live with it", then perhaps a second opinion is in order. Here is a link to 5 different products by a company whose "experts" produce solutions for 2005 Audis via quick search on their opening page of their website. It allows year specific "search" narrowing. So, if your tranny is listed here; it may be worth giving a company a call that produces solutions that there must be a market for. Just logic; not trying to be offensive.

http://www.revmaxconverters.com/inde...ear=481&q=audi
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Old 12-13-2013, 06:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUJ View Post
When the opinion of the "experts" ends in a defacto "we don't know" or "live with it", then perhaps a second opinion is in order. Here is a link to 5 different products by a company whose "experts" produce solutions for 2005 Audis via quick search on their opening page of their website. It allows year specific "search" narrowing. So, if your tranny is listed here; it may be worth giving a company a call that produces solutions that there must be a market for. Just logic; not trying to be offensive.

http://www.revmaxconverters.com/inde...ear=481&q=audi

I don't discount getting 2nd advice, but in this case, ZF are the guys who built and repair the transmission.
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Old 12-13-2013, 08:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA_Driver View Post
I don't discount getting 2nd advice, but in this case, ZF are the guys who built and repair the transmission.
True; I don't discount ZF as being the most qualified experts, just discounting their solutions as non-solutions; hence the need to go elsewhere for a remedy rather than accept it. I haven't dug into the 09L, but there is a TSB calling for software re-coding that is not made for other symptoms which is much cheaper than a re-call. Basically, if any slush box is dropping pressure, it could be sluggish or malfunctioning solenoids. Software patches usually would address the timing of the solenoids, as long as the pressure switch system is operational. The rev flair on my 09D and all other issues that irritated me on the Aisin built box was cleared up by insuring the valve body had trustworthy solenoids; hence the timing and the function of hydraulic pressure regulation was optimized. Same exact tranny is in the Cayenne and Q7 as well. Dealer quoted me about $10k to change out a factory re-build. Using a bit of logic saved some bucks. Another bit of challenging logic could be as to why Audi did not have a ATF fluid change interval. The fluid specs are pretty darn good. Some old schoolers may know that when you drain the original fluid, you drain out the friction material lost from the bands to the fluid over the years that constantly re-circulates. Some old schoolers may see that the fluid metamorphosis was an accepted design quality. A lot of people make money selling very expensive dealer provided ATF for prophylactic reasoning. Just saying.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #9
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Did some digging on the 09L:

" PRLog (Press Release) - Dec. 27, 2011 - Volkswagen and Audi cars use a 6 speed transmission on many newer models. These transmissions appear to have a high amount of failures due to valve body failures. These 6HP19 - 6HP28 models show a common issue with the valve body causing clutches to burn out. The failure symptoms usually start with 2nd and 3rd gear slippage or a bad shift pattern. The early stages will require replacing the valve body and reprogramming the computer. After the problem has been driven too long, a rebuild as well as the valve body and reprogramming will be your repair solution.

Many Audi and Volkswagen auto customers are complaining. After numerous complaints, Volkswagen and Audi extended their problem transmission valve body warranties to 100,000 mile warranties. Checking with the Audi or Volkswagen dealer on these extended warranties may help save you money. After 100,000 miles, you will be on your own to pay the high dollar repair bill. These vehicles are also having problems in their computer programs as well. It is unclear if the computer program is half the problem, but it needs to be done after the major repairs are performed to avoid harsh engagements and downshifts to 4th gear.

After the transmission rebuild, new valve body and computer reprogram are performed, it appears that you will have little or no problems after. As long as the transmission is properly rebuilt and the valve body is replaced with a new one, the internal problems will disappear. In the repair shop, we see many of these transmission repairs go through and other than reprogramming issues, they seem to last. The
Audi and Volkswagen dealer does not reprogram these computers for free, however it will ensure the lasting of these ZF 6HP19 - 6HP28 transmissions in your car.

If you buy a new Audi or Volkswagen vehicles with these 6 speed transmissions, you may consider an extended warranty that covers automatic transmission failures. A wise decision to protect you and your car since most of these model cars will encounter the transmission problems sooner or later. A small investment with the right insurance company will probably save you lots of money especially if the transmission fails. Make sure that you read the fine print on your transmission section of your insurance policy to see if the valve body and transmission is covered.

Let Audi (http://audirepairtampa.com) and Volkswagen (http://volkswagenrepairtampa.com) hear your voice. If you experience this problem with your Audi or Volkswagen, you should email, write or call the main Audi or Volkswagen headquarters and express your concerns. Yelling at your local dealer probably will not help, but going to the main source will. If enough voices are there, a recall may happen and many people will be able to be reimbursed for their troubles. "


Too bad ZF "experts" failed to mention the prominence of the failures. Got a .pdf with torque values from ZF for those that want to do the valve body. It isn't that bad for those who relish attention to detail.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:12 AM   #10
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Who issued the so called press release? It is suggesting that you contact an independent service shop named Guys in Tampa Florida. It does not exactly look like an official document.
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Last edited by KevinGary; 12-14-2013 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:12 AM
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