With a failed Stage 4 clutch how am I suppose to figure out if it's parts vs installe

[gibsonl]

The first time I called on Monday that's what they said. They said I would need to first tear down the tranny to determine what caused the issue and if it's a faulty part it'd potentially be covered. When I called back after having pulled the tranny on Thurs. the story changed. It all of a sudden became, "there's no way our clutch could have failed or ever been unbalanced." I informed RAI of this so they called JHM on my behalf. RAI then called me back and said that JHM informed them that no matter what the cause was there's no way it'd be possible to be a warranty covered item. I'm not going to call JHM to demand to speak to the owner bc I'm not that type of person. JHM to me is whoever picks up the phone.... Maybe you haven't seen my many threads in the past ripping the Alexandria dealer. I already told everyone from day 1 that regardless who was at fault, Audi Silver Spring screwed me over by pretending that nothing was wrong with my car when I questioned the odd engagement. They then made the situation even more frustrating by driving my car over 100 miles on Monday/Tuesday yet still pretending nothing was wrong. Who test drives a car for that many miles unless you're trying to figure out what kind of story you could get an unsuspecting customer to believe?! ONCE AGAIN, this is not about just the blame game. It's about how you handle situations when things go wrong. Are you a smart a** when you talk to your customer, or are you acting in a helpful manner as the situations you described. Maybe I was just unfortunate and spoke to the 1 jerk in the office, who knows.

[gibsonl]

It would have been really easy for JHM to play nice with RAI and explain how to tear it down to verify fault as you described instead of making another enemy..... I've noticed that the flywheel markings by Audi are at 1/2's instead of 1/4's. So as the JHM expert, are you saying that minor difference threw off the balance?

http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/u...3DDSC01729.jpg

[ArthurPE]

a clutch is meant to last 50k to 100k or more miles
imho it is not broken in in only 1k miles, probably closer to 3k
this means light load, and numerous engagements, low rpm, etc.
a lot of stop and go under light load accelerates the process (city driving, a bunch of engagements) 950 miles of in town driving at an avg of say 30 mph is 30+ hours of driving...in town I usually stop/go at least 4-5 times per hour of driving, maybe more, so that is 500 or so shifts assuming 1,2,3,4 shifts before stopping again

after at least 2k of that I would gradully increase the load/rpm, but never get it hot, let it cool down after a few hard runs, after another 1k of this I would consider it good to go

the only way to tell material or install is during the disassembly
it should be documented and measurements taken
pressure plate alignment and bolt torque (a torque wrench works both ways, gradually increase the setting until it breaks the bolt loose)
run out, radial % lateral on the disc, is it cocked or not perndicualr?
flywheel run out of the flywheel, radial and along the axis
flywheel bolt torque
even the tranny could be slightly cocked/misaligned during install, puting everything askew
this will be invaluable if you need to prove your case

[gibsonl]

Arthur, all it took was for JHM to run down something like that for me and I could have insured it happened. I'm not a mechanic so no one should assume I'd think of those things.... Clutch break-in can be debated for an eternity since everyone has different ideas on the process, but it's irrelevant in this particular situation. I'm sure I'll be called crazy so I'm not even sure why I'm saying it, but I took it very easy on the clutch at the track. If you listened to my video you'll notice very minimal down shifting. I would basically just brake until the motor got down to around 3-4k rpm to minimize any clutch load. The shuddering started before I was even pushing the pace, maybe around lap 3-5. At the end of each session I didn't even smell the clutch. When I beat on a clutch it's noticeable!!

[ArthurPE]

I don't think it was a break-in issue, the wear/scoring/heat damage would be uniform imo
the clutch shouldn't be so out of tolerance that it needs evened out or 'mated' by wearing it in
but it should require a little wear in to mate the surfaces properly

from the pics it could be anything
flywheel crooked (hard to tell after disasembled)
disc not perpendicular to the shaft (this can be checked now)
pressure plate unevenly torqued (not sure how to tell once disassembled)
tranny cocked, can't tell once removed, but possible (did they remove the engine or R&R in place?)

hard to tell what caused it, but looks like a high spot on the flywheel or disc, but since BOTH are worn in the same non-uniform asymetric fashion, probably both
chances of both being bad manufacturing is small
measure the flywheel for flatness
do the same for the disc + concentric/perpendicular on the shaft
if both are flat, must be install

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by gibsonl

Arthur, all it took was for JHM to run down something like that for me and I could have insured it happened. I'm not a mechanic so no one should assume I'd think of those things.... Clutch break-in can be debated for an eternity since everyone has different ideas on the process, but it's irrelevant in this particular situation. I'm sure I'll be called crazy so I'm not even sure why I'm saying it, but I took it very easy on the clutch at the track. If you listened to my video you'll notice very minimal down shifting. I would basically just brake until the motor got down to around 3-4k rpm to minimize any clutch load. The shuddering started before I was even pushing the pace, maybe around lap 3-5. At the end of each session I didn't even smell the clutch. When I beat on a clutch it's noticeable!!

I'm sure you weren't loading the hell out of the clutch at the track day, but it's still pretty tough on the part...and if it was installed incorrectly, a track day would exacerbate any problems lying beneath.

Anyway, did JHM say anything about resurfacing the flywheel and making it salvageable? That's an expensive part and that would be great if you could. Maybe you could sell it and recoup some of the loss.

Still though...I have to wonder why you're not more hot at Audi?

[gibsonl]

The Audi tech who did my clutch is an Audi enthusiat who's building an S4 himself and swears he followed the directions to a T. I am mad at them regardless of who's fault the issue is. They test drove my car 100 miles and still pretended nothing was wrong which forced me to go to another company to find/fix my issue. Dan is checking out the pics now and I'm supposed to send the parts after he reviews them. I'll probably just send the parts to JHM today anyway since hopefully the parts can be salvaged. If the flywheel is true, then I'll tell the world that JHM's parts were great! ... But the service sucked a**. But I think everyone dealing with JHM, including myself, has already pretty much accepted the second part of that..... If the flywheel isn't balanced or is wharped, then I'm not sure how to explain the situation other than parts failure. But I'm sure there are some clever excuses/explanations out there.

[s4master1]

this issue catch my eye and I need to ask.
is it possible I can see the pictures?

I think all parties approach this the wrong way.
while all the finger pointing is going on you have no car.
don't want to start another rant here but let's look at a few factors.
manufacturer states. is impossible for parts to fail. that's a very strong statement and also wrong.
did you follow the ridiculous break in process?. of course not, who does? and yet not every part fails.
the installer screwed up, really? the only thing he/she could have done wrong was the torque, which would show up almost as soon the car warm up.
the flywheel did not seat properly, this can be very shameful as no flywheel should have room for mistake when installed, I understand sometimes you get the Jr mechanic to work on your car but I never heard of a flywheel/pressure plate to not seat properly, the manufacturer is at fault in something like that.
then we have the driver, let's face it
nobody goes thru all these performance enhancements to drive to church on sunday.
it would be nice to see the pictures to get a better idea of what happened.
a clutch that last 900+ miles with no issues is good to go for a long time, however it can be burned in a minute very easy.
sorry to pitch in but based on the facts at hand it seems driver's problem.

[gibsonl]

What's the deal saki?! ... I finally get the parts to JHM on Fri. I'm expecting the 1 day turn around like I was told in the beginning. But apparently all they can do at JHM is a visual inspection which "everything looks fine." That's of course not acceptable for me so I insist it gets bench tested. So they ship it to 034 the same day so it gets there on Monday and I'm told I'll hear back Tuesday. By 1 on Tues. I get tired of waiting so I call JHM and am told they have to check with 034 so they'll give me a call back that day. Tuesday afternoon passes, no call. Wed. passes, no call. It's now Thursday and I'm getting hot so I call. The 1 guy handling my situation is "out getting parts." Is there any concern for my car being on a lift for 2 weeks and spending $500 on a rental!?!? .... JHM's suggestion of just "rebuy all the parts and we'll give you a refund IF it's covered by warranty" isn't a solution.

[gibsonl]

So I had to endure about 12 hours of bashing by the audirevolution JHM fanboys, but I now have a new warrantied JHM fw in the mail. AWESOME!.... If you want to see the craziness over there just check it out!! All types of personal attacks, but hey, the things we do for our cars!