With a failed Stage 4 clutch how am I suppose to figure out if it's parts vs installe

[gibsonl]

It wasn't all 900 city, but it also wasn't only 600 city. It's somewhere in between. But ultimately, whether I drove 750miles in the city or 1500 miles in the city, what impact does that have on half of my clutch still being brand new and the other half looking like it has 30k miles on it. You love to argue about irrelevant things. If I take a car to an installer for them to test drive the car and they tell me the higher engagement than stock is fine, what do you suggest I do. Hey Audi, spend another 10 hours taking my trans apart right now bc Saki says so. COME ON MAN!!!.... And once again Saki has found the key, I clearly listened to the instructions I heard online to put 250 miles on my clutch as a full break-in before going to the track. You got me!!! WHY DO I WASTE TIME TALKING TO THE FANBOYS!?!?

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by gibsonl

It wasn't all 900 city, but it also wasn't only 600 city. It's somewhere in between. But ultimately, whether I drove 750miles in the city or 1500 miles in the city, what impact does that have on half of my clutch still being brand new and the other half looking like it has 30k miles on it. You love to argue about irrelevant things. If I take a car to an installer for them to test drive the car and they tell me the higher engagement than stock is fine, what do you suggest I do. Hey Audi, spend another 10 hours taking my trans apart right now bc Saki says so. COME ON MAN!!!.... And once again Saki has found the key, I clearly listened to the instructions I heard online to put 250 miles on my clutch as a full break-in before going to the track. You got me!!! WHY DO I WASTE TIME TALKING TO THE FANBOYS!?!?

I very clearly noted that you drove the requisite miles. Just not the right type of miles. It's plain and simple. You haven't said anything to refute it. How about the simple math? Over 8 days you said you drove 'somewhere between 600 and 900' miles of city driving. Ok...so 750 right? 750 miles of city driving at a generous average speed of 20 mph would take you a total of 38 hours. That's about 5 hours a day of city driving. Did you take a vacation? I thought you owned a business? Most business owners I know don't have time to spend 5 hrs a day city driving their car to break in a clutch.

I know I'm frustrating to deal with. Its because I'm presenting facts to you that hurt your sob story.

As to why your clutch was partially untouched and partially glazed, do you really think that's how JHM designs it? Or do you think maybe it wasn't torqued down properly?

[gibsonl]

I'm actually in a fortunate situation where driving around in my car is part of my job. BOOOOOOOMMBBB!!!!! There goes all of Saki's theories. WAHHHHHHWAHHHH!!!

[BADRS4]

Hey Saki, it's very clear why you're banned and get into so many fights on the internet....why don't you take a look in the mirror and realize that you are Extremely arrogant and annoying...You went thru a whole analysis and went "cut and paste" crazy which invloved trolling on sites that you're banned from just to try and prove a point to gibson that he didn't put the proper miles on the car...pointless accusation just to return back to arguing about install error....its clear you get some type of satisfaction from arguing minute points back and forth on the internet...is it some type of ego boost for you? I can't imagine you paying any attention at your job for the amount of time you spend on audi sites....just lay off man..and grow up!

[RS4Ship]

This is pretty dissapointing Gibson, sorry to hear your having so many issues. I love the idea of making this car even more fun than it already is, but it's stories like this that have continued to steer me towards keeping the car stock. Unless JHM could recommend a shop that they "warranty" the install, then your just going to get into a finger pointing match any time there is a an issue it sounds like. If I were I would go back to stock and take it easy on the drag strip, but more power to you for giving Clutchmaster a shot.

[RS4Ship]

Is this even worth arguing? It's clearly an installation issue, unless the flywheel is warped which you can check once it's out.

It wasn't break in, we've all broken in new clutches and as long as you don't do crazy dumb **** they will be fine...especially within the first 10k miles or so. No way you did anything THAT out of the ordinary in the first 1000 miles to justify what happened with your clutch, I don't give a **** if it was city driving, highway driving, reverse driving or inverse driving...it wouldn't cause a half new/half abused clutch after 1000 miles.

If the installer isn't going to warranty it than you have a few choices. If nothing else they should at least install the new one for free. If you paid for the clutch or the installation with a CC you could charge it back based on the fact that you did not recieve the product or service that you were told you would get, which was a proper installation of a working clutch. Your credit card company will go to both JHM and the installer for more information, where they will have 1 month to show evidence of the contrary. Details here: http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...chant-1282.php

Good luck man! BTW, does this mean you won't be at VIR on Monday?

[gibsonl]

I'm already argued out. Just waiting on the pics from RAI so I can fwd them to Audi to give them the option of either reimbursing for the install of their own will, or I dispute the transaction as you suggested. As well as get Audi NA involved since I already have a contact from my faux cc last year. I know they are sick of me, but I'm also sick of having to call them for their dealers shotty work. Now 2 dealerships I can't take my car too!! Audi refused to tear it down on Monday so no way I'm taking it back there now. They put over 150 miles on my car Mon/Tues and the techs and service manager determined my car was PERFECTLY FINE! ... I backed out of VIR. ( I'm going to make sure I have the time to do a proper break-in again so no one can ever blame me. RAI has a good relationship with clutchmasters so they said they will replace any failures under warranty without an issue.

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by gibsonl

I'm already argued out. Just waiting on the pics from RAI so I can fwd them to Audi to give them the option of either reimbursing for the install of their own will, or I dispute the transaction as you suggested. As well as get Audi NA involved since I already have a contact from my faux cc last year. I know they are sick of me, but I'm also sick of having to call them for their dealers shotty work. Now 2 dealerships I can't take my car too!! Audi refused to tear it down on Monday so no way I'm taking it back there now. They put over 150 miles on my car Mon/Tues and the techs and service manager determined my car was PERFECTLY FINE! ... I backed out of VIR. ( I'm going to make sure I have the time to do a proper break-in again so no one can ever blame me. RAI has a good relationship with clutchmasters so they said they will replace any failures under warranty without an issue.

I hope it works out with RAI

I have a question though...you have posted on other forums that you're 90% sure it was install error. You posted it here too.

So why are you ****ting on JHM still? Another scenario. You buy some tires from tirerack and have them shipped to your house. The tire shop screws up on install and does sidewall damage. You drive on the tires for a week, and have a blowout with the damaged tire. You admit that it was the install, not the product itself that was the problem...and despite this, tirerack offers you a 5% discount (on a very low margin item) to help you out.

Do you start threads trashing tirerack.com on all the Audi forums? Because that's what you've just done to JHM.

[gibsonl]

Saki, it seems like you're missing the main point here. When you run a business you have to have some level of respect for your clients. If someone calls you with an issue you need to work with them to try to determine the cause of the issue, especially if they are a client who has spent a ridiculous amount of money with you over the last year. I wasn't looking for them to say, ok we're gonna send you a new setup for free. I was looking for them to not respond with a smug attitude like it's impossible to consider even the remote possibility of a parts failure. RAI even attempted to call them and he said JHM was so arrogrant in their conversation with them that he was pretty put off himself and that JHM confirmed that there's no way the parts would be warrantied since essentially they can't make anything defective.
I was even willing to pay a fair amount of money for the setup aside from the final analysis of the parts just so I could have everything together to go to VIR. Rather than say, hey, we've made a ton of money on this guy so let's try to help him out and give him the parts for cost (or something along those lines). They instead said "we aren't liable for anything so here's $100 off which is basically the price we charge venders." They claim that they are the only shop that gives a warranty on their clutch and flywheel, yet in the same breath say it's impossible for a parts failure and therefore they won't replace it. What's even the point of saying you have a warranty that can't be used?! I ended up spending more on the clutchmasters setup so it's not just about the money with me, it's how I felt I was treated that made the deciding factor as to how I handled this whole situation.
FYI, if I bought a set of tires from tirerack with their warranty and had them installed (improperly) tirerack would replace the tire for FREE! Even if the JHM part failed and it was their fault, I wouldn't be upset. I'd say take care of it and move on. If they hadn't been so smug to me and RAI I would not have even posted anything about it. But with everything that has occurred and just gettig the feeling that they don't give a sh*t, I'd rather help others avoid the same fate. They make some great products, but their terrible customer service will be the death of them. They won't always be the only show in town for tuning an RS4. If they said, hey, we want to help you out but we only make $100 on each setup (even if it was a lie) I woulda said ok, send me another one. But the mightier than now attitude has to go. While I was on the phone with them I honestly felt like I was talking to you during one of your rants ... And to be honest, I'd never give you a dime of my money! If I treated my clients like that I'd be otu of business pretty quickly.

[sakimano]

yeah, I figured that example would be a tough one for you to handle. You changed the warranty around to suit yourself.


Anyway, I thought you originally said JHM told you at first they'd inspect it and refund you if it was indeed a hardware problem? You were real happy about it.

Originally Posted by gibsonl

I will fairly add that JHM will inspect my parts for free to determine if it's parts failure.

Sounds like once it became clear it was an install issue, and once RAI started getting involved (maybe told them the obviosu signs of install error) JHM stepped back to save you from shipping a 40 lbs package across country for no reason.

For your info they have made that offer (inspect/refund) before to other forum members. One in particular made a thread bitching about JHM and JHHM's owner stepped in to explain the part...to explain the symptoms that pointed to installer error..then offered to tear the car down at their shop at their expense to show the owner the install issues. If it was done properly, they'd cover all costs including new parts if necessary.

The customer put JHM on the phone with his install shop (some fancy shop that worked on Porsches) and the guys were adamaant they had done everything to the letter.

The customer drove to Lathrop, they went through it explaining what they were going to look for once they got in there, and it was clear that the installer had not followed the procedure. They hadn't even used the JHM supplied bolts (which are longer). JHM showed the customer, then called the customer's shop on his behalf to tell them that they basically owed the customer a bunch of money. The shop relented and covered the costs.

This happened another time with a customer who went to Achtuning. Same result.

This happened a third time with a customer who went to another shop in Seattle. Same result.

So I'm sure JHM is a bit sick of people screwing up their parts and trying to blame them. Kind of like you/Audi are currently doing.

Let's see you start some threads about the dealership and how they ****ed up your install so bad that it caused the destruction of $1600 in parts, and saw you having to buy / install a whole new clutch/FW setup. I'm sure guys on the forums would LOVE to know what dealer to avoid.

Originally Posted by gibsonl

hey, we've made a ton of money on this guy so let's try to help him out and give him the parts for cost

This was funny. For one, they're not consultants selling their time for $1700. They sold you a lightweight flywheel and stage IV clutch for $1700. Their margins are RAZOR THIN. They have to take care of 034 as well on those things.

When you pay $3000 or 4000 for another setup, THEN you'll see big margins with the ability to give someone $1000 off if there's a problem. Let me know how that goes.