Turn key...nothing but dash lights

[tozoM8]

Bad crank sensor will prevent starting, but it would still crank.

[Proph3t]

Well it is cranking 9/10 times now. It was sticking bad, but its back to how it was for the last few months, cranking wise. But still no firing.

What is meant by the "E Box". Is that the passenger foot well relay box?

I'll check out the sensor wiring for continuity back to the ECU, as well as very simple things such as battery terminals etc. It sounds stupid but I blew hundreds of dollars on sensors/ECU and weeks of time only to find a bad battery in my Lexus.

Anyone know what the resistance should be across the crank sensor pins?

I've also read that 30revs with out firing can cause the crank sensor code to appear automatically. So if fuel filter etc is blocked, it could show a misleading code.

I know from previous experience that the brake code listed there wont show if your foot is on the brake pedal, which makes sense I guess.

EDIT: Looked at the battery terminals in the dark after work, and the negative battery terminal is covered in yellow oxidization, and there is water sitting in the battery well, so I'll clean that up in the light.

[silverd2]

Originally Posted by Proph3t

Well it is cranking 9/10 times now. It was sticking bad, but its back to how it was for the last few months, cranking wise. But still no firing.

What is meant by the "E Box". Is that the passenger foot well relay box?

I'll check out the sensor wiring for continuity back to the ECU, as well as very simple things such as battery terminals etc. It sounds stupid but I blew hundreds of dollars on sensors/ECU and weeks of time only to find a bad battery in my Lexus.

Anyone know what the resistance should be across the crank sensor pins?

I've also read that 30revs with out firing can cause the crank sensor code to appear automatically. So if fuel filter etc is blocked, it could show a misleading code.

I know from previous experience that the brake code listed there wont show if your foot is on the brake pedal, which makes sense I guess.

EDIT: Looked at the battery terminals in the dark after work, and the negative battery terminal is covered in yellow oxidization, and there is water sitting in the battery well, so I'll clean that up in the light.

The E box is under the hood in the fresh air plenum, on passenger's side (opposite side of brake booster on LHD)...houses the ECM, TCM and and a few relays and fuses.

Engine speed sensor terminals 1 & 2 should read 0.5K to 2K ohms....1 & 3 should read NO continuity.

I don't know about the 30rev-no-fire thing...don't see anything about that in Bentley(?)

There is a brake code that sets automatically every time you turn on the ignition, then erases when you hit the brake...but not sure that is the same code. Should have nothing to do with no-start, though.

[Proph3t]

I know where the Ebox is now, havent looked in there at all yet. Will do.

I'll check those sensor terminal readings too.

Only had time and daylight enough to check the battery lastnight. Its sitting in an inch of water, and the negative terminal is VERY oxydized, with yellow crust. Looks like that massive storm I had to leave the car in lastweek before all of this may have caused water to get down in there. So I'll have to clean all that up and see if it could be a low current issue. Had simpler things cause big trouble.

I've gone to purchase my own Bentley, but since they dont list my year I was dubious whether it would be accurate. They start at 1997, mines a 1996 with the 4speed tiptronic, they only cover 5speed. It covers everything else and the ABZ engine so prob worth the $129 anyway right

Again, thanks for your help SilverD2, and tozoM8.


AFTERTHOUGHT:
When I turn key to ignition I see the fuel pump relay activates and hear the pump prime for 2 seconds, but when its cranking should the pump be running, or does it start with the existing line pressure alone? Appears after the 2 second prime the relay doest activated again when turning over...normal?

[silverd2]

Originally Posted by Proph3t

I know where the Ebox is now, havent looked in there at all yet. Will do.

I'll check those sensor terminal readings too.

Only had time and daylight enough to check the battery lastnight. Its sitting in an inch of water, and the negative terminal is VERY oxydized, with yellow crust. Looks like that massive storm I had to leave the car in lastweek before all of this may have caused water to get down in there. So I'll have to clean all that up and see if it could be a low current issue. Had simpler things cause big trouble.

I've gone to purchase my own Bentley, but since they dont list my year I was dubious whether it would be accurate. They start at 1997, mines a 1996 with the 4speed tiptronic, they only cover 5speed. It covers everything else and the ABZ engine so prob worth the $129 anyway right

Again, thanks for your help SilverD2, and tozoM8.


AFTERTHOUGHT:
When I turn key to ignition I see the fuel pump relay activates and hear the pump prime for 2 seconds, but when its cranking should the pump be running, or does it start with the existing line pressure alone? Appears after the 2 second prime the relay doest activated again when turning over...normal?

Don't know what country you're in and not sure who ships outside a the US, but a few sellers have the Bentley CD rom cheaper. Here's one:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/D2_B...Manual/ES6279/

And I believe that a US 97 with ABZ engine should be mostly the same info as a non-US 96 in Bentley.

The starter circuit does disable all nonessentials during cranking, but as I understand it, the fuel pump is NOT one of those and should run during cranking, BUT only if the ECM (which activates the relay) is receiving a correct signal from the engine speed (crank position) sensor.

[Proph3t]

Saturday morning initial findings:

Got into the battery area where the crusty NEG terminal was found. After unbolting it, I couldnt get it to budge, it was so corroded on, but after pouring on some bicarb in water it let go and I discovered that the clamp was broken clean through with a 1mm gap on the opposite to the bolt. It was obviously still clamped on nice and tight, but possibly not metal to metal.

Like I always say, if it isnt the problem, it soon would have been.

I'll replace that now and go from there.

Fingers crossed

...come to think of it, this is the EXACT senario I had with my twin turbo Lexus. It would crank like crazy and rarely start, throw crank and cam position sensor errors (which I replaced 1 of the first and 2 of the second, along with water temp sensor) then I replaced the battery and it drove was perfect and better than ever, never had the issue again.

Thanks for that link, thats the cheapest I've seen them, so I ordered one.

[Proph3t]

Ok so one shiney new battery terminal later, and a battery reading 12.5v, but no luck. Actually I cant turn the motor over at all again, just relay clicks. Going backwards.

My troubleshooting skills are limited to just reading on the cover what a relay or fuse is and then checking its seated and working ok.

Checked the eBox under the bonnet and it appears dry and ok, there is a grey relay in there between the 2 ECU boxes that appears to have some brown discoloration but seems ok under its cover. Think it had "14" on the top.

It appears the starter or solenoid may be jammed or not being fired? Cant hear or feel an actions from either. Getting fuel pressure at the regulator, pump and relay are working as expected.

I'm not getting any codes at all now (except the normal brake light switch one).

Not sure where to go from here.... ...think an insurance claim is the next step, let an auto electrician fix it.

[silverd2]

Not sure about your year, but on my '01, after disconnecting the battery, on 1st start, the key must be held in the ignition position for 5 seconds before trying the starter...the resets the ECM (right out of the owners manual).

Without being there it's impossible to say, but you could have more than 1 problem, making it hard to track down. You could indeed have a bad ignition switch (intermittently failing)...but that doesn't seem to explain an engine speed sensor code...and not sure if a bad switch could allow crank but no start(?...not the usual symptom...just no crank.

Do all the remote door locking/unlocking functions still work normally, before & after you disconnected/reconnected the battery? The starter interlock relay has to get an OK from the central locking module to work...wired directly through it and it sends an "on" signal to the starter relay.

[Proph3t]

Hi again. I've left the key in the ignition for quite a while, no change. The locking and unlocking functions are as they were before the battery removal. I however do have a pre-existing issue with interior lights not being triggered by the rear doors. The boot also doesnt lock with the central locking due to a bad bellow on its locking mechanism, but this has been for some time, I just lock it manually. I've have just purchased a bellow online.

I went to start removing the ignition switch as I found a new one locally for AU$90, but I decided to test a crank again...it bloody turned over, but didnt fire. I tried several times and each time it cranked over. ???

So sometimes it doesnt crank at all, sometimes it cranks but doesnt fire. I'll bet my hat it will show a crank position sensor error again, which is better than no errors I guess. The issue keeps switching around. Hard to track.

I've checked all the earth mounts for corrosion in the passenger foot area and up towards the dash. All looks clean there.

I'll keep investigating.

AFTERTHOUGHT:
While cranking, the LCD screen was showing I had a blown light bulb somewhere...thought that was weird. Might be worth mentioning as the lights werent on...maybe a brake light...

[Proph3t]

Well this afternoon its back to no crank ???

I'm assuming the starter relay is the one marked "Relay for start interlock" with a "369" on the top located in the passenger footwell, 2 down from the fuel pump relay. Well with he cover off it isnt clicking at all, guessing it does when it decides to crank. Noticed it actually has 2 switches in the mechanism, neither move.
>>So what effects whether it cranks or not? Ignition switch?

I'm not sure if I'm seeing a check engine light at all...only thing similar is the key-in-a-car light. Is the CEL a lighting-bolt-through-engine light? If so I dont have one showing at any point...
>>Does this mean no ECU power? Ignition switch again maybe?

Just want to double check before I drop $100 on a switch.

Thanks again for all the help.