Engine failure after timing belt change

RobCT · 12-15-2010, 06:27 PM

My local garage that takes care of my A-8 I had do a timing belt maintainance change at 105K. He called me after completed the job he started the car, said the cam tensioners were defective and worn out and the car jumped time and valves hit the heads.. I now have a junked engine says wants to show me the malfunctioning cam tensions and why this happened.. I mentioned that the car had the intemittent clacking noise at start up when the car sat for a while but not all the time. Can anyone advise me here. I can't believe that the cam tensioners could get the car so way out of time that there would have been catistrophic interference or any interference for that matter. Advice

hanshy5 · 12-16-2010, 10:22 AM

you might find out if that garage locks out with the special audi tool for changing the timing belt.

mishar · 12-21-2010, 03:08 PM

I think he made mistake. Court of law is your best friend.

kprc51 · 12-31-2010, 05:33 AM

I just did a timinig belt on my 2000 4.2L. Having purchased and used the timing belt locking tools (cam bar and crank pin) the job vas very easy. My car was not driven for about a week and when I fired it up it also had some tensiner noise for about 3 seconds, then went away. The cam tensioners are operated by engine oil pressure so when parked for a time, the oil drains out of them.

What I would do is ask for this mechanic to show you the 4.2L timing tools. If he used them to lock and adjust the cams, then he might have an argument, however I'm not sure he used them at all or used them correctly. Even complete failure of a cam tensioner would not cause a timing belt to slip, and even if one of the cam tensioners completely failed, you should still be able to install the cam locking bar in place to verify the cam gear alignment.

Point of advice...if you take the timing belt covers off and see some sort of markings on the cam wheels and the new belt (may it be a paint mark or a marker mark) this would tell me that he never used the tools to lock the cams and crank but simply marked everything and tried to put the new belt on in the same position by counting the timing belt teeth... and got it wrong. I have done Audi timing belts both ways, using the correct tools is definately the right way.

Main point is this, if you use the proper timing belt tools, this job is easy and accurate.

Good Luck.

JR

Peter Badore · 07-07-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobCT

My local garage that takes care of my A-8 I had do a timing belt maintainance change at 105K. He called me after completed the job he started the car, said the cam tensioners were defective and worn out and the car jumped time and valves hit the heads.. I now have a junked engine says wants to show me the malfunctioning cam tensions and why this happened.. I mentioned that the car had the intemittent clacking noise at start up when the car sat for a while but not all the time. Can anyone advise me here. I can't believe that the cam tensioners could get the car so way out of time that there would have been catistrophic interference or any interference for that matter. Advice

Does the local garage have any of the Audi timing belt camshaft special tools?
The camshaft timing bar is unique for the 2.8 V6 30V versus the 4.2 l V8 40V
even though the camshaft belt is common (I am assuming a later model A8?). Also I always replace all the timing system wear out parts that rotate with the camshaft belt, the water pump, idlers, tensioner and damper. Many belt failure are caused by components other than the belt wearing out. If you drove the A8 into the shop without any problems other than normal belt maintenance and now the engine is damaged it is time to call a lawyer.

Migi26 · 09-21-2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobCT

My local garage that takes care of my A-8 I had do a timing belt maintainance change at 105K. He called me after completed the job he started the car, said the cam tensioners were defective and worn out and the car jumped time and valves hit the heads.. I now have a junked engine says wants to show me the malfunctioning cam tensions and why this happened.. I mentioned that the car had the intemittent clacking noise at start up when the car sat for a while but not all the time. Can anyone advise me here. I can't believe that the cam tensioners could get the car so way out of time that there would have been catistrophic interference or any interference for that matter. Advice

That happens from the shoe pads on the cam chain tensioners breaking off and the plastic pieces lodge them self in the tensioner preventing it from keeping tension on the cam so the cam chain slips on the cam sprocket. More than likely you only had a few bent exhaust valves.

Audi0s · 09-22-2011, 05:46 AM

I think he screwed up the timing and is looking for a way out. 2 new chain tensioners is going to cost you over 1000 more, the only way theyd jump time is if they fall apart. Id take a look at them when you get there, and make sure he can put the cam bar in between the pulleys to show you its timed.

uberwgn · 09-22-2011, 07:24 AM

Man, this is going to turn into a big $$$ repair if that V8 is an interference design.

Rob, welcome aboard!

TECHNAUT · 11-13-2011, 02:33 PM

classic: shop messes up a repair and trys blaming it on something else. How could it be anything but their fault if you brought them a running car and now it doesn't! If they claim the tensioners were no good why would they not inform they need replacement? They'll probably try to put a used motor in it before having yours rebuilt. i'm interested to hear the outcome.

BrianC72gt · 04-11-2012, 10:00 PM

The timing belt drives the exhaust cams directly. The exhaust cams drive the intake cams via chains around the variable cam timing thingies. The thingies move up and down to advance or retard the timing of the intake cams.

The car ran when you brought it in. Even if the mech is saying the cam adjusters failed, none of the exhaust valves should be bent. It is also a heck of a coincidence that the adjuster(s) gave up the ghost exactly when he changed the belt. Kinda smells bad.

Was it making a racket when you brought it in?

12-16-2010, 10:22 AM	#2
hanshy5 AudiWorld Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 482	you might find out if that garage locks out with the special audi tool for changing the timing belt. __________________ Rob in St. Louis 2006 A6 3.2 Quattro Tip Silver/Black Leather 144000miles 2001 A4 1.8T Quattro tip Casa White/Grey Vinyl 276000miles 1996 A4 2.8 Quattro 5spd Black/Tan leather(sold) 217000miles

04-11-2012, 10:00 PM	#10
BrianC72gt AudiWorld Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 403	Any bent exhaust valves = definitely shop's fault The timing belt drives the exhaust cams directly. The exhaust cams drive the intake cams via chains around the variable cam timing thingies. The thingies move up and down to advance or retard the timing of the intake cams. The car ran when you brought it in. Even if the mech is saying the cam adjusters failed, none of the exhaust valves should be bent. It is also a heck of a coincidence that the adjuster(s) gave up the ghost exactly when he changed the belt. Kinda smells bad. Was it making a racket when you brought it in? __________________ ________________________________________________ "Oh, bother", said Pooh as he chambered another round.

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12-21-2010, 03:08 PM	#3
mishar AudiWorld Super User 2005 Audi A8 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 2,961	I think he made mistake. Court of law is your best friend.

12-31-2010, 05:33 AM	#4
kprc51 AudiWorld Newcomer Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5	I just did a timinig belt on my 2000 4.2L. Having purchased and used the timing belt locking tools (cam bar and crank pin) the job vas very easy. My car was not driven for about a week and when I fired it up it also had some tensiner noise for about 3 seconds, then went away. The cam tensioners are operated by engine oil pressure so when parked for a time, the oil drains out of them. What I would do is ask for this mechanic to show you the 4.2L timing tools. If he used them to lock and adjust the cams, then he might have an argument, however I'm not sure he used them at all or used them correctly. Even complete failure of a cam tensioner would not cause a timing belt to slip, and even if one of the cam tensioners completely failed, you should still be able to install the cam locking bar in place to verify the cam gear alignment. Point of advice...if you take the timing belt covers off and see some sort of markings on the cam wheels and the new belt (may it be a paint mark or a marker mark) this would tell me that he never used the tools to lock the cams and crank but simply marked everything and tried to put the new belt on in the same position by counting the timing belt teeth... and got it wrong. I have done Audi timing belts both ways, using the correct tools is definately the right way. Main point is this, if you use the proper timing belt tools, this job is easy and accurate. Good Luck. JR

09-22-2011, 05:46 AM	#7
Audi0s AudiWorld Senior Member 2004 Audi S4 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North Jersey Posts: 919	I think he screwed up the timing and is looking for a way out. 2 new chain tensioners is going to cost you over 1000 more, the only way theyd jump time is if they fall apart. Id take a look at them when you get there, and make sure he can put the cam bar in between the pulleys to show you its timed.

09-22-2011, 07:24 AM	#8
uberwgn AudiWorld Super User Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New England Posts: 2,416	Man, this is going to turn into a big $$$ repair if that V8 is an interference design. Rob, welcome aboard!

11-13-2011, 02:33 PM	#9
TECHNAUT Audiworld Junior Member 2004 Audi S4 Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 34	classic: shop messes up a repair and trys blaming it on something else. How could it be anything but their fault if you brought them a running car and now it doesn't! If they claim the tensioners were no good why would they not inform they need replacement? They'll probably try to put a used motor in it before having yours rebuilt. i'm interested to hear the outcome.