Survey for vibration issue, even if you don't have it

[dk1]

Originally Posted by Cabal_san

Saw this over on the q5 forum today.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showpost...1&postcount=16

Just cross posting for grins...

Awesome... Can't wait for numerous threads were people demand new brake disks.

[desgnconcpts]

Originally Posted by matthewsjl

The TSB is 44-08-18.

I purchased the Bentley - which gives the TSBs :-)

From memory, it doesn't identify a VIN range.

Basically, the TSB goes through the road force balance procedure - once you've exhausted that process and still have the shimmy, the dealer should contact the Audi Tech center for further details. There isn't anything in there about new control arms.

So, the good news is that there is an official TSB and a process to follow. The first step is to do the balance. Looking at the TSB, no dealer is going to jump straight to new control arms until they conduct this step (or an alternative, updated TSB is produced).

I can probably PDF the TSB.

John.

John, I know a PDF of the TSB would be invaluable to me and probably many others -- hope you are able to do this soon.
Thanks

[av_audi]

Originally Posted by Cabal_san

Saw this over on the q5 forum today.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showpost...1&postcount=16

Just cross posting for grins...

Damn! I once tried to explain why my own car had a slight vibration and I wondered whether sufficiently warped disc rotors could cause a slight imbalance. I asked my mechanic and the VW_vortex lounge, but no one thought it was possible. But discs on newer automobiles have gotten pretty damn large, and while I have not done a back of the envelop estimate to find out whether it can become a noticeable factor, my gut feeling is that it could.

Actually I did a search and one source noted that rotors and even axles could cause imbalances that produce vibrations.

So what Audi needs to do in the U.S. is not force-balance the wheels. It needs to do on-vehicle balancing.

[av_audi]

...As of Oct 7 2009 it turned out that IS the break disks! They distort due to thermal stress.

I wonder how often brakes warp due to thermal stress versus over-torqued wheel nuts (or a combo).

Maybe Audi has specified too high of a torque number for the nuts, or dealers are wrecking havoc with their pneumatic impact drives, or something is not calibrated properly on the assembly line.

Or perhaps all the folks who are having the problem are budding race car drivers pushing their cars really hard.

[Cabal_san]

Originally Posted by av_audi

Or perhaps all the folks who are having the problem are budding race car drivers pushing their cars really hard.

remember this is from the q5 forum, so doubtful.

But the torque spec on the lugs sounds interesting...

[need_TQM]

Originally Posted by Cabal_san

But the torque spec on the lugs sounds interesting...

AFAIK it's 90 ft-lbs (or some round n-m that is close to 90 -- 89.x probably)

I'm not sure I've ever had a shop that actually torqued the lugs to anything close to 90 -- they are usually several multiples of this...

[dustbunny44]

My car: 2009 A4 quattro Premium +, Auto, 1,000 miles, no vibrations.

Drove a 2009 A4 quattro Prestige Auto with less than 50 miles on it at the dealer, definite vibration between 55 - 70 mph, like the car was rolling over a road with washboard grooves but only at that speed range.

[matthewsjl]

Personally, I think that cars with really low mileage (dealer) should be dismissed - it's very possible that they have sat and there are flat spots or they maybe have a balance/tire problem from the factory - it does happen on odd vehicles.

Ironically, my dealer left the tires very over-inflated (47.5psi) at delivery. This was probably a good thing as my 09 had sat around for a long while at a dealer. I drove it for about 300 miles before dropping the pressure..... it probably cured the flat spots if any were present.

Now, not to make any less of those that are suffering the problem but in reality, how many cars are affected? My guess is that it's actually not that many in percentage terms and this may be making it harder for Audi to nail down to an exact config/VIN/supplier. I'd also bet that there are a fair few problems that do happen with tires/balance from the factory eg: out of round etc. that just make this harder to positively identify 'real' problem cars.

It's too late now for me to PDF the TSB. However, it looks to me like Audi is trying to resolve and also data collecting. The TSB specifies that cars must be stock as shipped from the factory (wheels/tires), pressures must be adjusted, cars with flat spots should be driven to warm the tires to remove the flat spots etc. Then the RF balance is done and out of spec tires replaced. There is also a detailed order of the best->worst installation placements. After that, then it's escalated to Audi Tech central for further evaluation.

The TSB description is specifically looking at the higher speed issues people are facing rather than the low speed ones I've also seen described.

John.

[desgnconcpts]

Originally Posted by matthewsjl

maybe have a balance/tire problem from the factory - it does happen on odd vehicles.

I'd also bet that there are a fair few problems that do happen with tires/balance from the factory eg: out of round etc. that just make this harder to positively identify 'real' problem cars.

It's too late now for me to PDF the TSB.

John.

Hello John, no need to PDF the TSB -- if anyone is interested, go to the A5/S5 forum and you'll find a link for it there.

I pulled a couple of sentences of your reply because, if you read that forum and others, what you will find is pretty alarming to me -- a fairly high % of folks have been told, like I was told: "Your wheel is bent, that's causing the problem and it will cost XXX to repair or XXX to replace." In one instance, one of the posters on that forum actually ponied up $1,900 for wheels/tires that they told him were the problem!

This seems to be a common theme -- when every "denier" here says Audi is stepping up and handling it -- I simply say it's a bunch of bull. In several instances, I've read where, when people were told their wheels were bent, they were shown the wheel turning on the Road-Force balancer and of course, no obvious physical damage could be seen when the wheel was still but the machine showed it out of whack. Dealers, likely at the behest of Audi, are simply telling customers "pay up." There are far too many incidences of this being told. It sure seems clear to me that Audi has supplier issues and maybe handling/transportation issues, maybe even mfg issues when these components are handled in the factory. Most likely, though, they arrive at Audi's mfg site out of spec. Then put on the vehicle and now customers are expected to pay up.

If anyone doubts this, read through all the messages again and see this is a common theme here on the A4 forum and over on the A5 forum. It's likely occurring or evidenced more because of the new underpinnings (stiffer design).

One other note -- I did call AoA on Tues with a promised call back yesterday. That call never came, further angering this particular customer. Evidently, there is quite a difference between how AoA US handles things from Audi's overseas operations. Customers from other countries are not treated like this from what I have been able to glean from all the messages I've read in the past few days doing more research.

[mnemons]

My car has been in dealership for the continuous steering wheel vibration after the replacement of control arms since Tuesday. (AOA also promised to call back on Tuesday for following up. Dealer told me a technician from AOA will stop by to evaluate my car on Wed. However, I have not yet received any calls or voice mails from AOA or dealership. Today is Friday.)