if you have bent 2001.5 17x7.5 audi celebration RS4 type wheels click here...

[mdwsta4â„¢uroslut]

I'm going to start a post for everyone of us that has a 2001.5 A4 with the 17x7.5" quattro sport package (celebration/RS4 type) wheels on it. For those that have bent their wheels, call up AoA at 800-822-2834, option 3, then reference all the case numbers listed on this thread. Also email me with your full name and case #. I will compile one large list for everyone to refer to. This will be the start of our petition to have something done about this problem.

My case # 30102928

I, personally, have bent all 5 of my stock wheels. I have a list of 10 other people with bent wheels as well. with enough people on board, we're hoping something positive will come from this for us.

if you're insterested in a long read, here is the same problem that happened with the real RS4 wheels in europe. the wheels ended up being recalled because the material from which they were made was too soft.

Wheels of Fortune - The RS4 Alloy Wheel Saga:
Next week is an anniversary for the first reported instance of Alloy Wheel Damage on the Audi RS4 discussion forum. Much has been said here over the months. Some fact, some experience, some conjecture and many suggestions. Little has officially been said by Audi, which is why this story rolls on into its second year.

On October 24th, all Audi UK owners are invited to a meeting at Millbrook Testing ground, in Bedfordshire, to a meeting with Audi UK to discuss the problem. Problem? Who said there was a problem? Audi haven't acknowledged it as a problem yet. Its been referred to by them as a "safety feature". Unfortunately missed out of the pre-sales information and owners handbook. Here's some pictures of the safety wheels in action. They seem to have a tendency to go oval. The best way to check your wheels is to go to a friendly tyre garage, have them taken off the car, and put on a balancing machine. Some balancing machines have extensible pointers which can be pointed at the inner edge, while you rotate the tyre by hand. If the wheel is bent, you will see the edge wandering relative to the pointer. With a good eye, this can be done without even taking the wheels off the car - just lift it on a ramp, spin by hand and watch. Bent wheels will show out of balance, but don't just re-balance - if they're bent then this won't help.

How much this affects you is up to you, but to help, here is an attempt to bring together the threads of the last year's discussions.

October 2000 - The wheels start rolling in
Giovanni, an Italian contributor to the RS4 discussion forum first noted that he had sustained damage while going over an inch high ramp in motorway roadworks. His original post can be found here. A week later, Giovanni had damaged a third on a 25mm hole, see here. Nobody else had experienced this, and his comments went relatively unnoticed. Next report came on 20th December, from Steve in the UK here. Reports of damage were now coming in thick and fast.

Dave, our host, threw up a question to all on the 25th of January, here, asking who had had bent rims. Buzz from NL answered first, having replaced two, and with the first report that wheels were particularly soft. Giovanni had four, all replaced free by his dealer.

February 2001 - I've got four square wheels
Des really started to get the ball rolling, with his famous post about square wheels here. A large bill awaited him. He took a bent wheel to a lab at Bristol University, and got a metallurgical report, here paraphrased, and here in its original. The alloy is definitely soft. More contact with experts followed. Mira confirmed that there was no standard for wheel softness. A local alloy wheel fitter took a lump hammer to one in a highly scientific controlled test. It was true. They were softer that he'd ever seen. Plasticity is the term - the opposite of elasticity. Whack it with a hammer and you make a 10mm dent on the inside edge. Whack a Jaguar wheel with a hammer and the hammer bounces out of your hand. By March Des has more bent ones here. Audi are asked for a proper answer.

March-April 2001 First responses from Audi UK
12/3/01 I met with DaveH and an Audi Regional Manager. We discussed wheels, and were told that so far, about 100 wheels had been replaced on about 60 cars, and that Audi UK had received 25 or so complaints from owners about this. They were liasing with Audi DE, and Quattro gmbh and would soon be in touch.

4/4/01 . First official response from Audi. "However, we do accept that some customers are unhappy with this situation and so in order to address this, we are currently investigating an alternative solution." Good - At last something is happening. Further, it says " We hope to have this available in the very near future"

11/5/01 still no news . Audi are testing two different new wheels, but it doesn't look promising. 22/5 - both have flopped - causing suspension failure!


May 2001 Sticking spokes in Audi's wheels
Frustrated that nothing seems to be happening, some owners were wanting action. We came up with five approaches.

1. Enlist the help of the press. Articles appear here in Autocar, here in Evo and here in the Sunday Times. A helpline is set up by Audi , which results in this letter being sent to owners. "Unfortunately, at this present moment the situation remains the same". Never a truer word spoken. This phrase echoes true even today.
2. Direct legal action. One member, who has had more than 16 rims replaced decides that enough is enough, and he is going to reject the car on the grounds that it is not fit to drive on the UK roads. It has been reported that at least four similar cases are currently in progress. 16 or so members chipped in £50 to kick the off the proceedings.
3. Complaint to the UK Government Vehicle Inspectorate. This sounds like a good option. Many are concerned about the safety of the wheels, the handling of the vehicle with non-circular wheels, and the possibility of them giving way, or tyres separating from rims at speed. The VIA have powers to enforce recalls on vehicles they consider unsafe, and enforce repairs.
4. Withholding payments to finance companies. Some owners who finance their cars are withholding payment pending a resolution. In the UK, consumer credit laws make the finance company jointly liable with the manufacturer if a product is unsatisfactory. The hope is that the finance company can apply additional pressure for resolution.
5. Watchdog, Top Gear or Driven. Plans exist for a TV showdown with Audi. Owners lining their cars up at the gates of Audi UK headquarters in Milton Keynes. A peaceful, humorous and televised demonstration of our dissatisfaction.


July 2001 - a Visit from Audi Germany
Finally something was happening. A meeting was arranged - under wraps of confidentiality agreements - but a meeting all the same, with a senior lady from Audi Technical in Germany. She flew over to meet Mike and Mark, two regular contributors near Leeds. They were chosen partly because they had both previously met with Kevin Rose, Audi UK MD, and because Mike has had around 16 replacement wheels while Mark has had none. Was a solution on the table? Sadly not. A lot of video tape was taken of Mikes car driving down a road local to him, over a bump, at different speeds with different tyre pressures. Far from offering a solution, Audi seemed to just be starting to look at what caused bent wheels! Full first hand reports of the meetings here.

August 2001 - Any progress?
1. After running the first articles, the press have not done any follow ups. A recent article here is probably not technically related.
2. Many letters went from our solicitors to Audi. Many replies were received - an example of which is here - all could be summarised by "Please give us another two weeks". This went on for some months. Come on Audi - It's now October! Nobody can make two weeks last that long. Sadly however, nothing came, other than repeated requests for "another two weeks". Formal proceeding have now been served by Des himself, since his lawyers finally thought Audi had been given long enough to offer a solution.
3. The VIA attended tests and demonstrations conducted by Audi. They were shown wheels being bent by being driven over certain obstacles, and of the car being driven fast with bent wheels. Their report is not yet public - and they will be in attendance on 24th October. Perhaps they want to see and talk to the owners before finally concluding. The VIA are only able to act if they see a direct safety problem with a car. We have heard that Audi have shown that soft wheels are the best engineering solution for the car, that they are perfectly safe, and that although a car may shake itself to bits, the tyre does not separate. Suggestion that the car handles poorly with bent wheels is highly subjective.
4. Whatever pressure finance companies have applied has had no visible effect. Maybe we are dealing with an immoveable object after all. Some owners have made no payments for many months, and the finance companies seem to accept the fact that this is down to Audi, and they have to wait.
5. Taking "the fifth" still is an option. It has been delayed from its original target of July 1st due to Audi's painfully slow deliberations with the VIA. It is still delayed pending the meeting on October 24th.

October 2001 - Some magazine follow-ups
Just when it seemed that the mags had all forgotten us...... 10/10/01 Autocar comes in with a follow-up here, and What Car gives it some space here. This looks like a press release from Audi, but all the same its coverage. Having prepared the ground, Audi must be counting on silencing all critics on the 24th October.


October 24th 2001 Audi RS4 Customer Day
This is another substantial report - so its all in another document. See here.

Fact or Fiction - Have you heard this one?
In the vacuum of fact caused by Audi's lack of information, rumours have freely multiplied. Here are a selection for you to make your own mind about.
Late on in the development of the RS4, the suspension collapsed during bump testing on the track. It was thought to be too late to redesign the entire suspension and so a soft alloy was specified. It was hoped that this would be very rare and it would be far simpler to replace a wheel than a cracked wishbone or other suspension component. Engineers at Quattro gmbh protested and wanted to delay the car and design a proper solution, but their objections were over-ridden by management.

A figure of 800 wheels have been replaced in the UK so far. The record is around 16 on a single car which had covered less than 3000 miles.

Your problem can be minimised by using particular combinations of tyres and pressures. RS4s were supplied with a combination of Michelin, Dunlop or Pirelli Tyres. Evidence might suggest that the Dunlops are worst, closely followed by the Pirelli, with the Michelins being quite protective of their alloy. It also is suggested that the original pressures on the fuel filler cap of the car don't do your alloys any favours. Higher pressures will protect the alloys - but what are they.....? Mike in Czech Republic thinks he knows . "originally I had Dunlop, 36/34, and 16 bent rims - every week I could change 2 or 3 rims...in July Audi gave me 4 new rims with 4 new Pirelli (under warranty) and recommended to increase the pressure to 40. Since then I drive Pirelli, 40/40, 0 bent rims!!! after 7.000 km..."

It has been suggested that temperature plays a part, and that the wheels damage far more easily when cold, or when the car is first driven....We British don't change onto winter wheels, so use our normal alloy wheels through all the cold weather. Is this effect because the tyre is harder first thing? Or the alloy more fragile?


A forum contributor had cause to visit the Audi factory, and saw around 30 RS4s in the car park. He also noticed that around half of them had 17" BBS wheels. And Porsche derived brakes. The brakes need to be changed too, if the car is to run on 17" wheels, since the originals will not fit.

Replacement may not be free
The concept of a car manufacturer dishing out free replacement wheels is quite unique. Without any guidelines from the manufacturer, your relationship with your dealer is quite important. If your bend is less than 4mm it may be deemed insignificant. If your bend in more than 7mm it may be deemed to have occurred on any wheel, so a replacement under warranty is invalid. If your wheel is scuffed, you may be suspected of potting on purpose just to get a replacement!


Wheels around the World
The British are sometimes accused of making a big fuss here about nothing. Everyone has their own view as to whether this is true or not. I like to think that we have a innate sense of what is fair and what is not. We queue patiently. Maybe we aren't the first to get the sunbeds at the poolside. But if we pay £5000 more than our European neighbours, we deserve the right to whinge a bit more. The "whinging" of the British purchasers has succeeded in helping many around the world get free replacement wheels - across all of Europe to New Zealand and Australia. So it hasn't all been in vain. Many emails from around the world have thanked us for publicising the issue.

Cartoons, Humour. Its not all been without a funny side...
click for the larger versions

Spy Shot of suggested resolution

Essential repair Kit - by Tomster

Caption competition for Audi PR shot


15 Unanswered Questions
These were sent to Audi on 14th September. It is hoped that all will be answered on the 24th October.

1. How many wheels have been replaced in the UK so far? Whether the wheel is safe or not is one issue - whether the wheels bend too frequently for normal road use is another. Estimates vary wildly, and it would help all owners to know what the real replacement rate is.

2. What damage is caused by what sort of obstacle, at what speed.

3. Do different tyre makes and pressures affect the likelihood of wheel damage. Does ambient temperature affect likelihood of damage?

4. Do the RS4 wheels being supplied now have exactly the same characteristics as all those supplied on cars 1 year ago? Are replacement wheels just as likely to bend as originals?

5. What size of wheel bend can be noticed by the driver at the front, and the rear, while driving on normal British road surfaces.

6. How often does Audi recommend we have our wheels checked?

7. Does Audi have any data as to whether the roadholding and handling of the car is affected by running damaged or non-circular alloy wheels? Several experienced drivers feel strongly that the handling is adversely affected by such wheels. Some owners feel that such wheels can cause the ESP and EBD to malfunction or cut in unexpectedly.

8. Which suspension component is at risk from fitting a normal hard forged alloy wheel? Are owners at risk of suspension failure if they fit popularly advertised after-market 18" and 19" wheels? If so, why have Audi not warned against this course? Does Audi feel that after market tuning suspension/wheel kits such as those offered by Sportec cause the car to be at risk from suspension fracture?

9. Is the problem lessened significantly by fitting 17" wheels and tyres with higher sidewalls? Is there a possible solution which could be offered to owners based around 17" wheels? Would that require different front brake discs? Would the Quattro gmbh "Sport Pack" brakes fit under 17" wheels?

10. Are the Quattro gmbh "Sport Pack" suspension and brakes available from UK dealers, and does fitting it lessen possible suspension fracture or alloy wheel damage?

11. Are tyres damaged by running on non-circular wheels? Some owners feel that this is the case, and have run into arguments with their dealers over tyre replacement at the same time as alloy wheels. Could Audi please clarify the warranty position for tyres.

12. Although it may be safe to run on bent rims, it is surely not desirable since other components on the car must suffer from wheel vibration. What other drivetrain/suspension components are at risk from wheel vibration. Could Audi please clarify the warranty situation for these components?

13. What is the period of free replacement, and the conditions for getting a free replacement. Does scuffing the outside of a wheel render the wheel ineligible for free replacement?

14. Is it possible for Audi to have equipment available at Millbrook on October 24th to check the wheels of all cars attending?

15. Many owners would like some discussion and information about resale values. They can't have been helped by this problem, and they will be further hit if the period of replacement expires at some point.


More than wheels
Although our meeting on October 24th is predominantly about wheels, other issues bubble around - although - if such a thing is possible - they are receiving less attention from Audi at the moment. Some owners have taken their cars out on track days and have destroyed the brakes in the process. They appear to be prone to warping under track conditions. Audi UK are quick to point out that warranties are instantly invalidated the moment you cross the start line. But that's not really the point though, is it? Our first demonstration of this car in the UK was at Silverstone. The brochure and many publicity shots are taken at race circuits. Audi use this racing association to sell the car, and the car should be capable of the task with no more than normal consumable wear and tear.

Demand for the car has not been as high as originally publicised. It may have "sold out" within days, but most were sold to dealers or speculators, who flooded the market with models for sale. Audi overproduced the model too - original press releases suggested 4000 were to be made - but according to audi.com more than 6000 were made. England were due 400, but it is suspected that many more came in. Oversupply has meant that some owners have reported that their dealers are unwilling to take the cars back as trade-ins. At the last count (October 2001) the Audi UK site had 32 RS4s for sale.

You must remember that Audi UK are really only the UK sales and marketing franchise for Audi AG. They have very little control of what they have to offer us. Several of us were involved in the initial rumpus over the UK price of the RS4. Despite the traditional excuses - "differences in specification", and "extra development cost of the rhd model", UK customers paid around £5000 more for their cars than Europeans. Those of us who drove hard at Audi UK for some movement here finally came to realise that the UK price was set by Audi Germany. It is ironic that the "extra development cost of an rhd model" didn't involve much testing on UK roads. This UK price premium explains in some part why UK customers feel they deserve better answers. It is also, co-incidentally, not dissimilar to the price of a set of 17" BBS wheels, and Porsche derived brakes.

[3pt8 turbo]

[nospek3]

[KenY]

[mdwsta4â„¢uroslut]

what's going to happen has yet to be figured out.

[AntiSocial]

My old man's bent 3 wheels since picking up the car this winter.

[mdwsta4â„¢uroslut]

its the same design wheel on the S8, just a different size.

[[ej257]]

[AntiSocial]

[[ej257]]

speaking of, do you know of anyone that won't mind letting me borrow a spare wheel/tire for one day. Going to Philly on 5/31 and I have no spare tire.