Mike2kS4's motor-pull cliff-notes ***Enhanced v2.019 w/ turbo info and the secret to life***
11-29-2005, 04:18 PM
#1
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mike2kS4's motor-pull cliff-notes ***Enhanced v2.019 w/ turbo info and the secret to life***
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/38083/cimg1459.jpg"></center><p>
Doing a motor-pull is a pretty lengthy series of simple tasks. It's not super-difficult for those with decent wrenching skill, it's just time consuming. If you've pulled an engine out of another platform before, you should have little difficulty doing so on the B5S4.
Translation for the B5-S4 forum literate: On a 1-10 scale, with .1 being a Midget and 10 being a Piggie, I'd grade it as a 6.5 difficulty level to complete this task.
Just ensure you have prepared a bit, allowed for ample time and take things step-by-step and you'll be OK. If not, well, I hear mass-transit is usually on or close to schedule.
<Prep>
Anyhow, get access to a nice set of conventional tools (ratchets, sockets, extensions, universals). In addition, Allen and Torx socket sets are vital as is a 10mm triple-square for the front driveshafts. an 8mm ball-socket allen key comes in handy for the turbo manifold bolts. A set of elcheapo (thin) $10 wal-mart combo wrenches (make sure it has a 19mm!) come in handy while installing the turbo lines as does a 5mm ball-end allen key.
If you're doing a clutch, a crank-lock pin is quite helpful, as is a 24mm socket to rotate the crank.
Of course, your normal jack, cherry picker, jackstands, balance bar and such are needed. A decent sized 2x4 and a sturdy piece of plywood come in handy as well, especially if you're separating the tranny.
Oh, don't forget the grease for the CV's!
<on the ground (or ramps)>
-Remove ground from battery
-Pull belly-pan
-Take out airbox and Y
-Remove fuel/evap lines
-Remove small vacuum-canister line going to the drivers side fender. On M box cars there's a squeeze-release fitting adjacent to the ABS pump.
-Detach electrical connectors adjacent to ABS pump, leading to rad support.
-Pull headlights, bumper, remove front pusher fan and condenser
-Pull IC shrouds
-Swing AC condenser to the side
-Remove rad support (Don't forget the temp sensor connector on the lower hose and the hood-latch cable!)
-Pull expansion tank
-Pull Bipipe
-Pull intercoolers
-Remove bolt from coolant hardline on block going to expansion tank and detach lower coolant hoses off the oil cooler(Helps with next step)
-Pull AC compressor and swing to the side (2 bolts front, one back, 13mm and a bracket under the engine)
-Detach grounds, little brown ones on top drivers-side and big one on bottom passengers side
-Detach all wire connectors from firewall
-Remove ECU and unplug the harness from deep inside the ECU box car (little multi-colored connectors), flop it on top of the engine
-take positive lead from battery, detach chassis lead and pull the terminal through firewall (the grommet comes out too) and place on top of engine
-Loosen wire looms attached to frame-rail
-Remove PS hoses, one hardline in the rear running parallel to the firewall and another to the engine from the reservoir
-Detach shifter (Just the two bolts holding the rods onto the shifter)
-Detach heater core hoses inbetween firewalls covered by an accordion shaped sheath.
-Remove IC hoses
-Loosen driveshaft bolts from center of the wheel hub while car is on the ground
<jack car up>
-unbolt exhaust from DP's
-Remove rear driveshaft cover
-Unbolt front CV's and rear driveshaft (may have to jack up one rear tire to rotate the DS to get all the bolts if you don't have an adequate extension)
-Unbolt motor and trans mounts
-Unbolt Tie bar(s)
<Lift engine up and out a few inches>
-Remove clutch slave cylinder
-Fish heater core hoses out
-Pull CV axles out under the trans, straight out... the left axle goes towards the right wheel and vice-versa. (You also may have to lift the engine up and forward some more, which it should do readily... since you detached the above.) Also, here is where you regret not unbolting those axle bolts as you should have while the car was on the ground.
-Pull trans mounts
<Yoink!>
Things that differ on the reinstall:
Put the axles in as the engine is a bit high and about 6" from its final position.
Putting in the clutch slave is a PITA, lube the rubber portion that seals to the tranny. Also, be sure to put it in as the engine is going in, not after it's settled.
One person should be UNDER the engine, guiding the shifter shafts into the rubber grommets. Lube the shafts a bit (!) so they go in easily... or you can just pull the shifter-box but it's a slightly more difficult maneuver.
Be mindful of the orientation of the engine/trans so it lines up straight.
<Helpful hints on things that could potentially ruin an otherwise rapturous engine-pull experience>
Crush washers... the nomenclature is pretty obvious: Tweak them till you feel them tighten and then crush a bit. Some of the fittings on the turbos are impossible to get to with the engine in, so double, triple and quadruple check all this stuff. Same goes for the short compressor outlet hoses: I tighten the worm-clamps till I see the outlying band of the clamp tweak a bit. Also, ensure the bolt in the worm-clamps face downward so they can be accessed from under the car if a problem ever arises.
If you strip an allen bolt, try a torx of similar size... it'll prolly work. If not, you can prolly pound a torx of the next size on and it'll work, once.
The turbo to mani bolts are notorious for stripping. If trying the above fails you, an angle grinder is your best friend. Let the sparks fly! Just grind the head off the bolt and it'll come right off.
Oh, and the secret to life: Live it!
Doing a motor-pull is a pretty lengthy series of simple tasks. It's not super-difficult for those with decent wrenching skill, it's just time consuming. If you've pulled an engine out of another platform before, you should have little difficulty doing so on the B5S4.
Translation for the B5-S4 forum literate: On a 1-10 scale, with .1 being a Midget and 10 being a Piggie, I'd grade it as a 6.5 difficulty level to complete this task.
Just ensure you have prepared a bit, allowed for ample time and take things step-by-step and you'll be OK. If not, well, I hear mass-transit is usually on or close to schedule.
<Prep>
Anyhow, get access to a nice set of conventional tools (ratchets, sockets, extensions, universals). In addition, Allen and Torx socket sets are vital as is a 10mm triple-square for the front driveshafts. an 8mm ball-socket allen key comes in handy for the turbo manifold bolts. A set of elcheapo (thin) $10 wal-mart combo wrenches (make sure it has a 19mm!) come in handy while installing the turbo lines as does a 5mm ball-end allen key.
If you're doing a clutch, a crank-lock pin is quite helpful, as is a 24mm socket to rotate the crank.
Of course, your normal jack, cherry picker, jackstands, balance bar and such are needed. A decent sized 2x4 and a sturdy piece of plywood come in handy as well, especially if you're separating the tranny.
Oh, don't forget the grease for the CV's!
<on the ground (or ramps)>
-Remove ground from battery
-Pull belly-pan
-Take out airbox and Y
-Remove fuel/evap lines
-Remove small vacuum-canister line going to the drivers side fender. On M box cars there's a squeeze-release fitting adjacent to the ABS pump.
-Detach electrical connectors adjacent to ABS pump, leading to rad support.
-Pull headlights, bumper, remove front pusher fan and condenser
-Pull IC shrouds
-Swing AC condenser to the side
-Remove rad support (Don't forget the temp sensor connector on the lower hose and the hood-latch cable!)
-Pull expansion tank
-Pull Bipipe
-Pull intercoolers
-Remove bolt from coolant hardline on block going to expansion tank and detach lower coolant hoses off the oil cooler(Helps with next step)
-Pull AC compressor and swing to the side (2 bolts front, one back, 13mm and a bracket under the engine)
-Detach grounds, little brown ones on top drivers-side and big one on bottom passengers side
-Detach all wire connectors from firewall
-Remove ECU and unplug the harness from deep inside the ECU box car (little multi-colored connectors), flop it on top of the engine
-take positive lead from battery, detach chassis lead and pull the terminal through firewall (the grommet comes out too) and place on top of engine
-Loosen wire looms attached to frame-rail
-Remove PS hoses, one hardline in the rear running parallel to the firewall and another to the engine from the reservoir
-Detach shifter (Just the two bolts holding the rods onto the shifter)
-Detach heater core hoses inbetween firewalls covered by an accordion shaped sheath.
-Remove IC hoses
-Loosen driveshaft bolts from center of the wheel hub while car is on the ground
<jack car up>
-unbolt exhaust from DP's
-Remove rear driveshaft cover
-Unbolt front CV's and rear driveshaft (may have to jack up one rear tire to rotate the DS to get all the bolts if you don't have an adequate extension)
-Unbolt motor and trans mounts
-Unbolt Tie bar(s)
<Lift engine up and out a few inches>
-Remove clutch slave cylinder
-Fish heater core hoses out
-Pull CV axles out under the trans, straight out... the left axle goes towards the right wheel and vice-versa. (You also may have to lift the engine up and forward some more, which it should do readily... since you detached the above.) Also, here is where you regret not unbolting those axle bolts as you should have while the car was on the ground.
-Pull trans mounts
<Yoink!>
Things that differ on the reinstall:
Put the axles in as the engine is a bit high and about 6" from its final position.
Putting in the clutch slave is a PITA, lube the rubber portion that seals to the tranny. Also, be sure to put it in as the engine is going in, not after it's settled.
One person should be UNDER the engine, guiding the shifter shafts into the rubber grommets. Lube the shafts a bit (!) so they go in easily... or you can just pull the shifter-box but it's a slightly more difficult maneuver.
Be mindful of the orientation of the engine/trans so it lines up straight.
<Helpful hints on things that could potentially ruin an otherwise rapturous engine-pull experience>
Crush washers... the nomenclature is pretty obvious: Tweak them till you feel them tighten and then crush a bit. Some of the fittings on the turbos are impossible to get to with the engine in, so double, triple and quadruple check all this stuff. Same goes for the short compressor outlet hoses: I tighten the worm-clamps till I see the outlying band of the clamp tweak a bit. Also, ensure the bolt in the worm-clamps face downward so they can be accessed from under the car if a problem ever arises.
If you strip an allen bolt, try a torx of similar size... it'll prolly work. If not, you can prolly pound a torx of the next size on and it'll work, once.
The turbo to mani bolts are notorious for stripping. If trying the above fails you, an angle grinder is your best friend. Let the sparks fly! Just grind the head off the bolt and it'll come right off.
Oh, and the secret to life: Live it!
11-29-2005, 05:24 PM
#5
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Knowing the slave is basically on top of the transmission(to the drivers side) would have helped
last weekend. We just had to do some digging. I'm really just posting for the next person to do this and finds this in their search.
11-29-2005, 05:42 PM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yea I was... Thanks Joe :)
But I was too much of a wusspod to hack into my car back then. It was too stockish and I was a bit afraid of ruining it. Of course, now it's a freakin' science-experiment.
Trending Topics
11-29-2005, 05:52 PM
#9
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, I don't see the advantage...
More opportunity to screw up the centring of the subframe. And also need a new alignment. Harder to move the car with the engine out also.
Stephen
Stephen
11-29-2005, 06:12 PM
#10
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You want extra steps? You should try it this way.
This being our first attempt, and no real steps to follow. We started out with trying to remove the whole subframe. Got the suspension disconnected and everything ready to go then realized we would have to get an alignment and bleed the brakes when we were done. Decided to just pull the engine without the transmission. Got that completed put the new turbos on. Tried to put the engine back in the car and realized it's too hard to align the motormounts with the subframe, the turbos with the downpipes, and the engine with the transmission all at the same time. So we removed the downpipes. Pulled the transmission out by hand. Mated it all up to the engine on the hoist, and then reinstalled it all in the car. Needless to say that after that experience I agree with your way. It is definitely the easiest. :-)