davideisenva

I know it sounds crazy, but I like things to be a certain way. I loved my ashtray in my Mercedes years ago, missed out on it with my Infiniti which had no option for it, and I wanted it back. I used a cupholder ash tray I got at a cigar store for years, it had a tendency to get really nasty (condensation from glasses, spills from coffees, etc. I always hated it. The 12v outlet I could care less about, I just want a neat area for my ashtray. Are you a smoker?

Vijay

As a physician, I find smoking to be a most disgusting and self-destructive habit. The amount of illness I have seen that is related to smoking is staggering. If you eliminated smoking, there would be no health care crisis. There would be enough money to properly pay for everything to take care of people that didn't bring about their illnesses onto themselves. You should quit. Seriously. And your car will be worth more at resale also. So from this standpoint, I am glad the Audi doesn't have an ashtray. Maybe they have decided to philosophically not support this horribly self-destructive habit.

davideisenva

I am not quite sure why you are turning a post about getting an ashtray (for those of us that choose to smoke, and pay for our own health insurance) into a forum for your political opinions. But since you did, I feel the need to respond. To give you an idea, an environmentalist would argue they want Audi to stop making W12s, V8s, and V6s, and Audi should only make hybrid V4s, because you are ruining the environment. You are a disgrace for driving that 12-15mpg vehicle when you could be driving a 50mpg vehicle. Better yet have solar panels at your house to charge a Tesla. After all, you are destroying the environment for generations after us, causing extreme weather patterns, poor air quality leading to poor health, dying polar bears, and more. One would argue you sir have no right to speak due to your carelessness and damage you are doing to the environment simply by virtue of owning a non-hybrid, and a V8 at that. Do you not care about your fellow man?

While I do not believe in the environmentalist attack on V8s, I am arguing there is one in every bunch. You would not like someone bashing you for having a S6 so why do you feel it is ok to bash someone for getting an ash tray and proceed to tell them how to live their life? I know the health risks of smoking, I am fully aware that I am severely shortening my life expectancy, I pay for my own insurance, and I pay for my extra fee doctor to give me more specialized care. I am not asking anyone to pay for my habit, and honestly I agree with you on a part of your argument. If you are on government healthcare you should not be allowed to smoke. Just like we should have drug testing for people on welfare. If you are living off my dime, I should get to tell you what to do. I am privately insured, and will be the rest of my life unless they make private insurance illegal and force me onto a government plan. In the case that they do, I will not stop smoking because I was willing and able to pay for my choice, but had my choice forcibly taken away from me without my consent. However, even in the case that I am forced to participate in a government run health plan, I will likely be paying above and beyond (in taxes) what I am paying now to be privately insured on my own and for some reason I believe all S6 drivers would be in the same boat.

Vijay

I buy your argument in part. You are quite correct that as long as you know the risks and you are damaging your own body, then that is your choice. You would be surprised how many people don't fully appreciate the risks. Nevertheless, topic of smoking is highly politically charged from the outset.

However the concept of health insurance itself is basically pooling money from a larger population to take care of a subsegment of that population. I pay out of pocket about $3000/yr for family coverage and my employer subsidizes another $11,000 or so for the cost of my plan. I have hardly ever used anything out of that $14,000 per year, yet people with smoking related illnesses have probably chewed up significantly more than that $14,000. Smokers drive up insurance premiums for everybody in a plan due to the high cost of treating the significant morbidity for smoking related illnesses.

Just like driving my S6 costs me personally more in fuel and insurance premiums than driving a Honda Civic hybrid, likewise, maybe the health premiums shoulds be significantly higher for smokers. Or, maybe smoking related illnesses should not be covered by insurance, just like a blown motor shouldn't be covered by a warranty if you choose to flash your ECU.

Comparing smoking related illness to the environmental impact of various internal combustion engines is not a valid comparision on many different fronts. I won't even get into the environmental toxicity of large amounts of battery chemicals and plastics associated with some "alternative" fuel vehicles. However, there certainly is a difference between smoking 3-4 cigarettes a day and smoking 2 packs per day, just as there is a difference between a modern ULEV 2 rated vehicle, V8 or not, and a 1969 big block V8 with no emission controls.

snagitseven

Ok, let's please remember this is the AudiWorld S6 Forum. If there's to be a continuing discussion on the health hazards of smoking, health insurance or whether or not Somalia is a nice place to visit in the summertime, please feel free to start a thread in the Off Topic Discussion Forum.
Thanks.

davideisenva

Vijay, I am simply comparing another social engineering argument (environmentalism) to yours (smoking). The environmental impact is up for debate, the battery chemicals are up for debate, all of the points you made are focusing on the debate of environmentalism. The merits of my argument are not in the content of the argument but in the form of the argument itself. You disagree with the argument that your Audi S6 causes more environmental problems than a hybrid. I agree with your argument, hence why I also drive one. That being said, there are many environmentalists that if they were on this forum looking at this topic, may very well argue that what you said is utterly false, and as I put it in my last post not caring about your fellow man and the future of multiple generations. Do I believe environmentalists are full of sh*t? Yes. But your argument plays along the same idea of social engineering, the idea that we must collectively as a society stop whatever the injustice is (smoking, the environment, obesity, drug abuse, alcoholism, whatever), and that we cannot have the free choice to understand and accept/deny those risks as individuals.

davideisenva

Sorry, back on topic, didn't see your post until after I posted my last post.

Vijay

The issue here, however, is that a design element of the S6 (albeit a small one) is linked to a very significant health and social issue. How far you want to take a discussion from that starting point is an arbitrary decision. No different than if someone was arguing that the cup holders in the S6 aren't large enough to hold big gulp sodas. That could lead in turn to a discussion on obesity, etc. Or how about seat size and discrimination against obese people. The list goes on. These are all design elements of the car, but they have human implications. No harm in discussing. Just my opinion.

Vijay

Well...sorry if I came across harsh. Due to my occupation and what I see, it is a topic that I am passionate about. It is fine to make choices with knowledge and understanding, but all too often, people don't know and don't understand.

snagitseven

Vijay, In my view this thread evolved a bit farther afield than the usual off topic wandering (and you initially did come on a bit strong). End of the day, I doubt having an ashtray or not included in the car's design or any opinions posted on this thread will change anyone's behavior one way or the other. If you guys want to continue the back and forth in an Audi enthusiast forum on the health hazards or individual rights of smokers, have at it. You're also a forum moderator and have certainly been around long enough to understand what's appropriate and permissible so I leave it to your best judgement.