SouthboroAudiGuy

They only list manuals for the following makes:

- Audi
- BMW
- Honda
- Lexus
- Mazda
- Toyota
- VW

SouthboroAudiGuy

...at least that's been my experience. I really think it has to do with the fact that they are targeting the installer market and not the DIY market.

Anyway, here's my take on the UI differences:

<b>iPod Mode</b> (IceLink): Allows you to use native iPod interface &amp; controls on iPod. Also allows some control of iPod through the car's electronics (head unit + steering wheel). This includes (from the next/prev track buttons) next/prev track. Additionally, by selecting the FF/REW buttons in combination with having one of the numbered CD buttons selected, you can execute the following controls on the iPod:
- CD1 + FF/REW = Fast Forward/Rewind
- CD2 + FF/REW = Next/Previous Playlist
- CD3 + FF/REW = Next/Previous Album
- CD4 + FF/REW = Next/Previous Chapter
(see my original write up for details - available through my sig).

<b>Denison Mode</b> (IceLink): Native iPod UI is disabled and replaced with Denison UI on the iPod. Navigation of this UI is poor, but text display of currently playing song is nice because it appears in larger text (good for visibility while driving). Numbered CD buttons 1-5 are mapped to your first 5 playlists. Using iTunes Smart Playlists, these can flexibly be remapped whenever you synch your iPod. CD #6 button is reserved for accessing Denison UI nav menu.

<b>Simple iPod Mode</b> (DICE): Similar to iPod Mode above but with a slight (and I think preferred) twist... Here's how you do prev/next track and other functions on the DICE product:
- CD1 + PREV/NEXT Track = Prev/Next Track
- CD2 + PREV/NEXT Track = Next/Previous Playlist
- CD3 + PREV/NEXT Track = Next/Previous Album
- CD4 + PREV/NEXT Track = Next/Previous Chapter
- CD5 + PREV/NEXT Track = Next/Previous Source (for switching b/w AUX/iPod)
- FF/REW = Fast Forward/Rewind
I think this is better because it lets you do more navigation using the steering wheel controls. On the IceLink, you have to use the CD buttons in combo with the FF/REW buttons which are only on the head unit. It's a slight modification but I think a good one in that you can keep your hands on the wheel more.

<b>DICE Mode</b> (DICE): Similar to iPod Mode above with a few big differences... On radios that support it, text info is relayed back to the head unit for display on the head unit. Because this is NOT supported on Audi head units, this feature is WORTHLESS to us. The price you pay for this feature is greatly reduced performance. The manual even says you have to "wait 10 seconds before using any controls" after turning it on (required for system initialization). I've also heard complaints from users (see other thread I referenced in my earlier post to this thread) that this mode has terrible performance in general.

So, with that in mind, here is my updated Pro/Con list:

<b>IceLink</b>

<i>Pros</i>
- Change between modes on the fly
- Excellent cradle (I think better than the DICE, but may not support the new 5G iPods) included in cost
- Software (i.e., firmware) can be field upgraded
- IceLink Mode has some value (larger "now playing" text display on iPod and mapping of playlists to numbered CD buttons)

<i>Cons</i>
- Unclear software support path due to being dropped by Denison USA (maybe Denison in EU will be able to take care of us??)
- Does not support video out (not a big deal for me)
- Must use FF/REW buttons for advanced nav when in iPod mode
- Does not offer additional AUX input


<b>DICE</b>

<i>Pros</i>
- Supports video out
- Currently supported through Denison USA
- Has additional AUX in (important if you also want satelite radio)
- Can use prev/next track (+ steering wheel controls) for advance nav when in Simple iPod mode

<i>Cons</i>
- Must flip dip switch to change UI modes
- Software is not field upgradeable (maybe this can be done by sending unit back? MAJOR pain to do this though...)
- Cradle (also excellent) is an extra-cost option
- DICE Mode has no value for Audi owners and offers very poor performance


So, which one to choose...

With the BIG qualification of not having done a side-by-side comparison, I'd have to give the nod to the IceLink, unless you need additional AUX capabilities or want to do video out. The reasons for this are the lower cost (included cradle) and field-upgradeable firmware + on the fly mode switching.

That said, I do like the fact that you can do more iPod nav using steering wheel controls on the DICE product. I'd rather keep my hands on the wheels than have to go to the FF/REW buttons on the head unit. Why was this not enough to give the DICE the nod? Because I really just find myself grabbing the iPod out of it's cradle to hold it when I want to go to a particular playlist. When it's in its cradle, the text is too small and far away to really be able to navigate through the menu strucutre no matter how well it integrates into the head unit/steering wheel controls.

SouthboroAudiGuy

^^^ PLEASE NOTE: Updated info in above post ^^^

avincar

I think that they just can't write to save their lives. Best Buy doesn't want bad manuals.

SouthboroAudiGuy

They start to really stink when it comes to telling you how to use them. That's why I think they're oriented toward installers vs. users.

avincar

...but that's what they are *working* on

krismillerl

Let me say thanks again... the information so far has been incredibly helpful.

Next thought - since really the only useful mode when dealing with a non-CDText compatible radio like the Symphony is the iPod control mode, is either the iceLink or DICE really the best (read: most cost effective) solution? What about the Blitzsafe? The website is incredibly lacking in information, but I *believe* versions can be purchased that are installed to the radio just like the Denison products and have a standard dock connector to allowing for charging. Your only control option is via the iPod, but that's all that we effectively get from Dension anyway.

Anyone have any experience with the new Blitzsafe products that can say "don't go there" or "yeah, that's an option if you're willing to give up [blank].

TJHUB

Having now used an iPod in my car for a couple of days now, I would never want to control the iPod directly. It's far to cumbersome, and to be honest, fairly dangerous. Controlling the iPod from the stereo head unit, and even better, the steering wheel controls are far easier and safer.

I really did not like the Dice unit upon initial install. After a quick call to Christian at enfigcarstereo.com I'm now all fixed up. The Dice unit is pretty fast with the controls. I can several tracks, albums, and play lists at a time. The iPod control is very predictable. I didn't want to keep this setup, but with the simple iPod mode on the Dice unit, I'm now keeping it. It actually works very well while still being somewhat primitive. I'm VERY picky about how things work, and I'm satisfied. After a few days of use, it becomes second nature to control the iPod very well.

I researched everything prior to purchase the Dice unit. For me, it was Icelink or Dice, nothing else. The Blitzsafe is functional, but not having head unit control functions takes it off the list. The Icelink is no longer manufactured, so purchasing one of those is less desireable. That pretty much leaves you with the Dice unit. Still the best buy in my book.

The only thing I have left to do is to get my iPod in full view while driving. The control is very nice, but memorizing my entire music collection is apparently something I'm just not capable of doing. With the iPod in plain sight, I'll know (remember) the artists, albums, and songs that are on the iPod or about to play.

Get the Dice unit, you'll be happy with it. Enfigcarstereo.com sells it for $145.00 and they're great to deal with.

Good luck!

SouthboroAudiGuy

It gives you some of the KEY things you want in an interface:
- Line out from the iPod (i.e., through the dock connector)
- Charging of the iPod
- Direct interface with the Audi head unit (i.e., through the CD changer inferface

So... what are you giving up?

- Control of the iPod from the head unit (INCLUDING the steering wheel controls if your car is so equipped)

Is the above worth the $75 price difference from the DICE unit? Probably not -- definitely not if you don't have steering wheel controls. In the days of the IceLink, the cradle was also included -- easily a $35-40 value. At that point, I think the difference WAS justified. The Denison cradle is really one of the very best out there. Given that it's been "unbundled," I think the landscape has changed.

Final thought... The Dice might very well be worth if IF you have steering wheel controls. The ability to advance through tracks without having to look at/touch the iPod is not to be trivialized in a performance car. As such, I'd say this is the point you want to focus on in making your decision.

Good luck!

SouthboroAudiGuy

Was hoping you'd jump in at some point given your experience with Dice. Glad you did!