Drove home at lunch, Now won't start
03-05-2014, 05:15 AM
#11
I'm on my 3rd battery...they can go bad. When mine sits for more than a week I plug it into a maintainer.
Have you had the battery tested? Most auto parts stores will do this for free. Actually, even Audi will do it for free. You might have to show them which end is positive, but they won't charge for your help either.
Have you had the battery tested? Most auto parts stores will do this for free. Actually, even Audi will do it for free. You might have to show them which end is positive, but they won't charge for your help either.
03-06-2014, 05:24 PM
#12
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If you are still having a problem, the battery cable connects to the frame behind the front passenger tire by the starter. Cleaning that up a couple years ago got me up and running when the car wouldn't start. Bunch of crap built up on it so I cleaned up the connection and the car has started since.
03-09-2014, 12:56 PM
#13
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Are you talking about the short ground cable between the engine and the frame?
Got a friend that works at a battery factory and got a new battery, saved me a bunch. New g28 speed sensor/ crank sensor.
Still starts hard and will throw a p0322 and p0321. I did notice in t depress the gas it starts better.
Any more ideas? Maybe ignition switch?
Got a friend that works at a battery factory and got a new battery, saved me a bunch. New g28 speed sensor/ crank sensor.
Still starts hard and will throw a p0322 and p0321. I did notice in t depress the gas it starts better.
Any more ideas? Maybe ignition switch?
03-09-2014, 01:29 PM
#14
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03-09-2014, 03:36 PM
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Thanks for the picture. I found the cable and was able to ohm out the connection and no resistance between the ground and the frame, engine, alt etc. Under the plastic cover the cable was packed in grease? For what ever reason right now it is starting and running pretty consistently. I'm sure this will change. Thanks for the picture. I did check the box under the hood that houses the computers, all dry and clean. I did pull the harnesses and reseat them, just in case of a bad connection. Going to go run it through the car wash and will try again tomorrow.
Did run into town for milk and it ran ok. Turned off at the gas station and hard to start again. After it started and when putting into gear it died . Hard starting again, reved a few times and was able to take off. This dying when put into geat has happened a few times. Last code p0321. Idle is around 650.
Did run into town for milk and it ran ok. Turned off at the gas station and hard to start again. After it started and when putting into gear it died . Hard starting again, reved a few times and was able to take off. This dying when put into geat has happened a few times. Last code p0321. Idle is around 650.
Last edited by jmmillerfzr; 03-09-2014 at 04:18 PM.
03-10-2014, 01:41 AM
#16
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If you are not getting the same error code consistently, or no codes at all, and you changed the fuel pump 6 months or so ago, I would wonder about the fuel Pump relay, but only in the absence of a code.
Oh yeah, a quick way to rule out the ignition switch: Watch the Check Engine Light (CEL) in the RUN and START positions. It should stay on while cranking until the engine starts. If it drops out when cranking and your battery is fully charged, then you ignition switch is suspect. Remember the CEL is powered by the ECU.. If it drops out while cranking, then your ECU is probably not getting power at that moment as well.
Oh yeah, a quick way to rule out the ignition switch: Watch the Check Engine Light (CEL) in the RUN and START positions. It should stay on while cranking until the engine starts. If it drops out when cranking and your battery is fully charged, then you ignition switch is suspect. Remember the CEL is powered by the ECU.. If it drops out while cranking, then your ECU is probably not getting power at that moment as well.
Last edited by BrianC72gt; 03-10-2014 at 01:47 AM.
03-10-2014, 10:07 AM
#17
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So with key in ignition and cranking the cel will remain lit while cranking? I can say it goes out before the engine fires off. Where is the fuel pump relay located? Today started fine coming to work and fine when I left for lunch, got to appointment after 40 miles of driving and when switching gears to park it died. Cranked hard to start again and was able to get to run and park.
03-10-2014, 07:49 PM
#18
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Yes, the CEL should stay lit in both the RUN and START (cranking) positions until the engine actually starts. It is triggered by the ECU. If it goes out prematurely then either the ECU is loosing power or the ECU thinks the engine has started when it hasn't.
If that is the case, then I would be suspicious of:
the Ignition Switch;
a bad ground (where? dunno)and;
the sensor that tells the ECU that the engine has started
The ignition switch powers the ECU directly through a fuse in the underhood electronics box. On a Facelift car at the ignition switch, it is RED power in to BLACK power out to ECU. I had a 90 Miata that would only drop power to the ECU while cranking, but it was ok in the RUN position...I could push start it, but not crank start it. Just one more reason to do a six speed conversion...but we digress.
How to test if the ignition switch is sketchy while cranking? I suppose you could open up the box under the passenger's footwell, and pop the plastic cover off the starting interlock relay turn the key to RUN, car in park, and push the points closed on this relay. That should engage the starter. Engine starts, let go of the points. wear a rubber glove if you aren't comfortable riding bareback. If the next time your car won't start, but this method works, then 95% chance your ignition switch is kaflooy.
(EDIT...the paragraph above SHOULD work...but it is a little cowboy and you loose the benefit of the load reduction relay taking non-essential electrial loads off line. Simpler test with multimeter is either alligator clip probe the solid BLACK wire out of the ignition switch or ....hmmm 2001 eh... the Underhood Fuse #102 5 Amps...Blk/Green in Blk Grey out. This fuse should see voltage in RUN & START, it is the fuse between the ignition switch and the ECU. If you have Vag-Com, I suppose you could run VAG scope while cranking to see if the ECU goes dead....no data.)
The only other thing I can think of is: clean the contacts in the wiring connector to your engine speed sensor (G2o?) that you just replaced.
The CEL dropping out or flickering while cranking is the red flag pointing to the ignition switch circuit. Pay close attention to how it behaves when the car starts with no trouble...no flickering. Mine actually stays on for a moment after the engine actually starts. If it flickers before then check the ignition switch. A new switch from PartsGeek should cost about $40.
FYI, the Fuel Pump relay feeds power out through fuses to: the Fuel Pump, Fuel Injectors, O2 Sensor Heat, Evap Leak Detection Pump...I think that's it.(EDIT: The relay also feeds intake manifold switchover solenoids, adjustable engine mounts, Evap purge solenoid valve, and Secondary air injection solenoid valve. Come to think of it, VAG COM allows you to test the engine mounts. If they fail, this would be another reason to look at the fuel pump relay.)
The ECU receives switched power from the solid black wire at the ignition switch. The ECU has another constant hot in and a third relayed feed in from the ECU Power Supply Relay. The ECU relay is triggered by the ECU and powers, oddly enough, the ECU, the ignition coils and the variable cam timing solenoids.
If that is the case, then I would be suspicious of:
the Ignition Switch;
a bad ground (where? dunno)and;
the sensor that tells the ECU that the engine has started
The ignition switch powers the ECU directly through a fuse in the underhood electronics box. On a Facelift car at the ignition switch, it is RED power in to BLACK power out to ECU. I had a 90 Miata that would only drop power to the ECU while cranking, but it was ok in the RUN position...I could push start it, but not crank start it. Just one more reason to do a six speed conversion...but we digress.
How to test if the ignition switch is sketchy while cranking? I suppose you could open up the box under the passenger's footwell, and pop the plastic cover off the starting interlock relay turn the key to RUN, car in park, and push the points closed on this relay. That should engage the starter. Engine starts, let go of the points. wear a rubber glove if you aren't comfortable riding bareback. If the next time your car won't start, but this method works, then 95% chance your ignition switch is kaflooy.
(EDIT...the paragraph above SHOULD work...but it is a little cowboy and you loose the benefit of the load reduction relay taking non-essential electrial loads off line. Simpler test with multimeter is either alligator clip probe the solid BLACK wire out of the ignition switch or ....hmmm 2001 eh... the Underhood Fuse #102 5 Amps...Blk/Green in Blk Grey out. This fuse should see voltage in RUN & START, it is the fuse between the ignition switch and the ECU. If you have Vag-Com, I suppose you could run VAG scope while cranking to see if the ECU goes dead....no data.)
The only other thing I can think of is: clean the contacts in the wiring connector to your engine speed sensor (G2o?) that you just replaced.
The CEL dropping out or flickering while cranking is the red flag pointing to the ignition switch circuit. Pay close attention to how it behaves when the car starts with no trouble...no flickering. Mine actually stays on for a moment after the engine actually starts. If it flickers before then check the ignition switch. A new switch from PartsGeek should cost about $40.
FYI, the Fuel Pump relay feeds power out through fuses to: the Fuel Pump, Fuel Injectors, O2 Sensor Heat, Evap Leak Detection Pump...I think that's it.(EDIT: The relay also feeds intake manifold switchover solenoids, adjustable engine mounts, Evap purge solenoid valve, and Secondary air injection solenoid valve. Come to think of it, VAG COM allows you to test the engine mounts. If they fail, this would be another reason to look at the fuel pump relay.)
The ECU receives switched power from the solid black wire at the ignition switch. The ECU has another constant hot in and a third relayed feed in from the ECU Power Supply Relay. The ECU relay is triggered by the ECU and powers, oddly enough, the ECU, the ignition coils and the variable cam timing solenoids.
Last edited by BrianC72gt; 03-27-2014 at 08:32 PM.
03-26-2014, 04:38 PM
#19
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I got a chance to do a little looking and found the fuel pump relay to test good. Applied 12 volts to it and I could hear it switch and went from open to closed. I did look around under the engine covers and cracked the fuel line after the car ran and it was under pressure. I did notice what I believe to be the knock sensor connectors were cracked. Could one cracked housing be causing the engine to think is is a misfire? Throw the p0321 code? Pulled a plug and it looks pretty old, I have new ones and will replace them this weekend. I was hoping to wait until I replaced the passenger side cam adjuster, but might as well do it now. Where are the knock sensors mounted? Anyone think a vacuum line leaking could cause the car to start hard? Maybe something to do with the fuel pressure regulator? As of now I can always get it to start with time, sometimes it dies when turning a corner, or going from park to reverse, or reverse to drive. Also found the drivers side CV joint near the engine is shot. I need some warm weather.
04-09-2014, 06:17 PM
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Well short update. Replaced all spark plugs with the factory plugs. Replaced fuel filter. Meant to do it this year anyway and had the parts. No change in symptoms.
It still starts hard, but has now been dying as I stop or slow down to park. I have been looking into the chance it is the ignition switch and started to pull the column covers.Since I need to pull the airbag and steering wheel I'm thinking of having the switch on hand to replace. This morning I noticed something interesting. The left side of the tach, the lights behind it seemed to flicker? Not sure if it means anything, but I read that a bad cluster can cause some issues?
Right now the only code is the p0321. I clear it and it comes back after some hard starts or when it dies. Thinking of pulling the MAF sensor and the throttle body. Some times it starts a little better if I step on the gas pedal, rapid rev when it goes.
I did get a vagcom and have seen the same engine P0321. Others were some communication between the radio and steering wheel controls. I'm wondering if anyone has information on what other vagcom reading I should be looking at? Maybe bad O2 sensors? I think they are original and the car has 156k miles.
In the mean time I'll keep reading and testing.
It still starts hard, but has now been dying as I stop or slow down to park. I have been looking into the chance it is the ignition switch and started to pull the column covers.Since I need to pull the airbag and steering wheel I'm thinking of having the switch on hand to replace. This morning I noticed something interesting. The left side of the tach, the lights behind it seemed to flicker? Not sure if it means anything, but I read that a bad cluster can cause some issues?
Right now the only code is the p0321. I clear it and it comes back after some hard starts or when it dies. Thinking of pulling the MAF sensor and the throttle body. Some times it starts a little better if I step on the gas pedal, rapid rev when it goes.
I did get a vagcom and have seen the same engine P0321. Others were some communication between the radio and steering wheel controls. I'm wondering if anyone has information on what other vagcom reading I should be looking at? Maybe bad O2 sensors? I think they are original and the car has 156k miles.
In the mean time I'll keep reading and testing.