2.8 cam chain and tensioner replacement
11-13-2013, 05:47 PM
#1
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2.8 cam chain and tensioner replacement
Greetings, everybody. This is my first post here. I'm a gearhead who has owned lots of Saabs with a few Volvos and Volkswagens mixed in but I'm brand new to the world of Audis. I've always thought they were neat cars and like getting into something new to me.
Long story short, I recently was given this Cashmere Grey 2000 A6 2.8 with 192k miles by my father-in-law. He's an Audi guy (has owned a couple of A8s) and this was a car he'd bought for my wife's sister. Dealer serviced since it was purchased in '08 but kind of cosmetically rough now (she hit a lot of things at low speed and didn't keep the interior clean). But the price was right for me ($0) and I thought it would be a nice car to fix up and add to our fleet. It looks nicer in the pics than in person. But I digress.
The reason this this car is free is because it needs some expensive engine work. Here is the analysis from the dealer:
So here are my questions
Is guide replacement a viable option or will I most likely have to replace the whole tensioner? The OEM part seems quite spendy ($600+) and I'm assuming the aftermarket ones for $150ish are Chinese-made junk.
If I do, in fact, have to replace the cam chain on bank #1 does this involve a lot of disassembly on the front of the car, AKA the service position?
As I said, I'm a complete Audi newbie, so I apologize in advance if these are silly questions. I'm just trying to get an idea of what I'm getting myself into!
This weekend I'm going to get the car into my garage and pull the valve cover off to have a look for myself and then hopefully order any necessary parts. I'd like to get this car back into service soon, the Quattro will be handy once the snow starts flying.
Any advice is most appreciated. Thanks again.
Long story short, I recently was given this Cashmere Grey 2000 A6 2.8 with 192k miles by my father-in-law. He's an Audi guy (has owned a couple of A8s) and this was a car he'd bought for my wife's sister. Dealer serviced since it was purchased in '08 but kind of cosmetically rough now (she hit a lot of things at low speed and didn't keep the interior clean). But the price was right for me ($0) and I thought it would be a nice car to fix up and add to our fleet. It looks nicer in the pics than in person. But I digress.
The reason this this car is free is because it needs some expensive engine work. Here is the analysis from the dealer:
Customer states the check engine light is on. Client states vehicle stalls out while driving. Verified.
Codes: P1519 Bank 1 camshaft adjustment malfunction. Also codes for misfires on cylinders 1, 2, and 3. Checked timing belt. Belt OK. Set engine to TDC and removed bank 1 valve cover. Found intake camshaft out of time and plastic chain tensioner guide broken. Also found damage to chain. Quoted repairs. Customer declined repairs.
From what I can gather is that at a minimum it's going to need new tensioner guides and probably a new chain. I've seen that these guides are available separately on eBay, Amazon, etc. (see here: http://goo.gl/TqSx6H). Codes: P1519 Bank 1 camshaft adjustment malfunction. Also codes for misfires on cylinders 1, 2, and 3. Checked timing belt. Belt OK. Set engine to TDC and removed bank 1 valve cover. Found intake camshaft out of time and plastic chain tensioner guide broken. Also found damage to chain. Quoted repairs. Customer declined repairs.
So here are my questions
Is guide replacement a viable option or will I most likely have to replace the whole tensioner? The OEM part seems quite spendy ($600+) and I'm assuming the aftermarket ones for $150ish are Chinese-made junk.
If I do, in fact, have to replace the cam chain on bank #1 does this involve a lot of disassembly on the front of the car, AKA the service position?
As I said, I'm a complete Audi newbie, so I apologize in advance if these are silly questions. I'm just trying to get an idea of what I'm getting myself into!
This weekend I'm going to get the car into my garage and pull the valve cover off to have a look for myself and then hopefully order any necessary parts. I'd like to get this car back into service soon, the Quattro will be handy once the snow starts flying.
Any advice is most appreciated. Thanks again.
11-13-2013, 06:24 PM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
ı have that exact car , welcome
first do not be afraid of service position. the fırst time is an hour. 15 minutes after that, ıs ıs absolutely nothing to worry about. just have a good set of torx bıts.
for a few bucks you could have a good runnıng car if you do the work yourself.
read about timing belt replacement and tensioner replacement here and other forums. It's about a weekends work if you take your time
definitely doable if you are mechanically inclined
first do not be afraid of service position. the fırst time is an hour. 15 minutes after that, ıs ıs absolutely nothing to worry about. just have a good set of torx bıts.
for a few bucks you could have a good runnıng car if you do the work yourself.
read about timing belt replacement and tensioner replacement here and other forums. It's about a weekends work if you take your time
definitely doable if you are mechanically inclined
Last edited by Airbag; 11-14-2013 at 04:04 PM.
11-13-2013, 10:09 PM
#3
AudiWorld Super User
To buy OEM parts at ~30% discount, try www.genuineaudiparts.com (So Cal dealer, good to deal with). You should also get a Bentley Repair Manual for your C5 A6 - it will save you a lot of headaches as well as $$s for DIY repair work (and correctly).
11-14-2013, 10:18 AM
#4
Its great that you are getting into Audi. If you are planning to repair Audis, I strongly suggest investing in a Vag-Com obd communications tool from Ross-Tech. This will help you in many ways to diagnose and find issues! Of course you'd need a good service manual. Bentley Publishers has a decent manual.
Do an advance search here with my username and words "cam" or "camshaft". I went through the t-belt procedure recently and have no problems thus far. Bought the kit from Blauparts.com
Also, if your tensioner is good, you could just buy the chain "pads" or shoes for about $60 for both sides on eBay. You need the tool as well! You want something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camshaft-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-Shoe-Pad-Holder-Audi-VW-Volkswagen-1-8-2-7-2-8-/271264818157?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f28a4a3ed&vxp=mtr
Also, you'd need valve cover gaskets, camshaft tensioner gasket, and little valley or half-moon seal. Again, Blauparts has excellent kit for this.
Do research and find appropriate DIY write-ups and compare against manual, then proceed with actual job.
Note: All this info is from my personal repair experience on a 2001 a6 V8, 4.2 liter engine. You'd have to check for exact requirements in the service manual. Also, I am not advocating Blauparts or Ross-Tech; I found them to be good. YMMV.
Good luck!
Do an advance search here with my username and words "cam" or "camshaft". I went through the t-belt procedure recently and have no problems thus far. Bought the kit from Blauparts.com
Also, if your tensioner is good, you could just buy the chain "pads" or shoes for about $60 for both sides on eBay. You need the tool as well! You want something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camshaft-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-Shoe-Pad-Holder-Audi-VW-Volkswagen-1-8-2-7-2-8-/271264818157?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f28a4a3ed&vxp=mtr
Also, you'd need valve cover gaskets, camshaft tensioner gasket, and little valley or half-moon seal. Again, Blauparts has excellent kit for this.
Do research and find appropriate DIY write-ups and compare against manual, then proceed with actual job.
Note: All this info is from my personal repair experience on a 2001 a6 V8, 4.2 liter engine. You'd have to check for exact requirements in the service manual. Also, I am not advocating Blauparts or Ross-Tech; I found them to be good. YMMV.
Good luck!
11-14-2013, 05:50 PM
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Thanks for the replies, guys, I appreciate it!
I will definitely pick up the C5 A6 Bentley manual. I've used their manuals for Saabs and Volvos and they are great.
I did a lot of initial research about this project when I first acquired the car in June but I'm only getting around to fixing it now. According to the service records I have this car last had a timing belt service at 149k miles and it's up to 192k now. So I'm guessing it would make sense to do the timing belt while I'm at it. I'll go with the Blauparts kit and tool rental. tester123, thanks for pointing me to those German-made tensioner pads and tool on eBay, I'll get those if I can get away with just doing the pads. What kind of damage should I look for when I remove the old tensioner? Is it safe to assume that it's bad if one of the cams jumped timing?
I'll hopefully start tearing things down this weekend and I'll share what I find. I'm looking forward to wrenching on an Audi for the first time!
I will definitely pick up the C5 A6 Bentley manual. I've used their manuals for Saabs and Volvos and they are great.
I did a lot of initial research about this project when I first acquired the car in June but I'm only getting around to fixing it now. According to the service records I have this car last had a timing belt service at 149k miles and it's up to 192k now. So I'm guessing it would make sense to do the timing belt while I'm at it. I'll go with the Blauparts kit and tool rental. tester123, thanks for pointing me to those German-made tensioner pads and tool on eBay, I'll get those if I can get away with just doing the pads. What kind of damage should I look for when I remove the old tensioner? Is it safe to assume that it's bad if one of the cams jumped timing?
I'll hopefully start tearing things down this weekend and I'll share what I find. I'm looking forward to wrenching on an Audi for the first time!
11-15-2013, 06:43 AM
#6
Timing? Hard to say. It could be but not necessarily. If the chain is off the tensioner, I would say yes. But, there is no way for it happen while it is all bolted down -unless chain broke and in that scenario, pads are the least of your problems. {Perhaps someone with more experience can pitch in} You could also check how the timing is now before opening using VAG-COM. I still haven't done this -requires finding measuring blocks in manual.
Tensioner - don't tighten the tool too much; the bottom tab can bend and that's not good. Also, watch if the tool "cutting" into the head from side/bottom of its threads when tightening the tensioner. This happened to me and probably because of cheap tool I got. Nothing alarming, just couple small metal shavings I had to remove...
Pay attention to chain links count. Align and mark current position with white-out or paint marker... Read through the whole procedure BEFORE you open it! Search for my "Camshaft" posts -more info there.
Great! Previously, I've worked on Honda(s) incl. clutch replacement. Truth be told, initially, I wasn't sure where anything is after opening the hood on my Audi. Of course, a problem here and there started and I was taking apart (mainly engine covers and intake duct work repeatedly; well you know, for practice!
) small things to troubleshoot. After the camshaft adj. seals started leaking barrels of oil due to some "destructive" testing, I decided to go for it and completed a t-belt, valve cover job along with Oil cooler pipe (specific on V8 - I think). This experience was great and it's helped by the fact that the car is still running - actually, better than before! 
If you already have experience working on cars, you'd appreciate the engineering and technology on Audis. It's like in NYC, you can see the building is very close but it will take couple hours to get there... and that analogy may be applicable on Audi in some cases where the repair is buried and you'd need few things off before getting there (V8's oil cooler pipe -for ex.).
11-16-2013, 12:45 PM
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If those pads are gone, the chain might be running on the adjuster's metal plate. IMO, this issue in itself would not be a "real" serious problem. The chain is on the tensioner's metal. Big deal! Well, you don't want that but, it's not the end of world for camshaft adj. or chain itself. Most likely, nothing devastating would happen. Those pads are there primarily to prevent or minimize friction. You would hear lot of noise however due to chain running on bare metal. however, if there are any kinks or if the metal plate is bent somehow, party is over.
Timing? Hard to say. It could be but not necessarily. If the chain is off the tensioner, I would say yes. But, there is no way for it happen while it is all bolted down -unless chain broke and in that scenario, pads are the least of your problems. {Perhaps someone with more experience can pitch in} You could also check how the timing is now before opening using VAG-COM. I still haven't done this -requires finding measuring blocks in manual.
Tensioner - don't tighten the tool too much; the bottom tab can bend and that's not good. Also, watch if the tool "cutting" into the head from side/bottom of its threads when tightening the tensioner. This happened to me and probably because of cheap tool I got. Nothing alarming, just couple small metal shavings I had to remove...
Pay attention to chain links count. Align and mark current position with white-out or paint marker... Read through the whole procedure BEFORE you open it! Search for my "Camshaft" posts -more info there.
Timing? Hard to say. It could be but not necessarily. If the chain is off the tensioner, I would say yes. But, there is no way for it happen while it is all bolted down -unless chain broke and in that scenario, pads are the least of your problems. {Perhaps someone with more experience can pitch in} You could also check how the timing is now before opening using VAG-COM. I still haven't done this -requires finding measuring blocks in manual.
Tensioner - don't tighten the tool too much; the bottom tab can bend and that's not good. Also, watch if the tool "cutting" into the head from side/bottom of its threads when tightening the tensioner. This happened to me and probably because of cheap tool I got. Nothing alarming, just couple small metal shavings I had to remove...
Pay attention to chain links count. Align and mark current position with white-out or paint marker... Read through the whole procedure BEFORE you open it! Search for my "Camshaft" posts -more info there.
The top tensioner pad looks fine and I'm not really seeing any chain damage and the top tensioner pad looks fine:
However, there was this chunk of pad lodged near one of the cams. So I'm assuming it's the bottom pad?
I'm thinking that maybe the best course of action then would be to get the enhanced Audi A6 Valve Cover Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket Kit (enhanced) from Blauparts and install everything in that.
This begs the question -- should I really do the full timing belt service now? I know it would be easier to get at but it seems that it will add quite a bit of cost to this project. The current belt service (belt, rollers, water pump, t-stat) was done by the dealer at 149k miles in March 2011. The car currently has 192k miles on it. What is the timing belt interval? Perhaps I could put a just new belt on without changing the water pump, rollers, etc.? Or should I just leave it all alone and wait until I need to do another full service? It's not going to be driven a whole lot, mainly around town, so it's likely it will see less than 5k miles a year from here on out.
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11-16-2013, 01:02 PM
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This is the Blauparts kit I referenced in my previous post (I don't have post editing rights yet) http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GF21002-1C
It includes the tensioner pads.
It includes the tensioner pads.
11-16-2013, 01:37 PM
#9
I'd replace the tensioner and chain. Look at the chain in the picture and note the shiny bottom edge. I bet it sliced into the bottom of the tensioner too.
For the belt, I'd skip it for now if you can get the tensioner out without touching it. No sense spending that money until you see how the car runs/drives. If you do the belt, do everything. Half a job is not better than none.
For the belt, I'd skip it for now if you can get the tensioner out without touching it. No sense spending that money until you see how the car runs/drives. If you do the belt, do everything. Half a job is not better than none.
11-16-2013, 02:17 PM
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I'd replace the tensioner and chain. Look at the chain in the picture and note the shiny bottom edge. I bet it sliced into the bottom of the tensioner too.
For the belt, I'd skip it for now if you can get the tensioner out without touching it. No sense spending that money until you see how the car runs/drives. If you do the belt, do everything. Half a job is not better than none.
For the belt, I'd skip it for now if you can get the tensioner out without touching it. No sense spending that money until you see how the car runs/drives. If you do the belt, do everything. Half a job is not better than none.
Thanks again for the replies everyone, I'm learning so much about Audis!