TEF1701

What stuff will benefit only 2-strokes?

Rogviler

Talking about the ethanol treatments... I've yet to run across a 2-stroke forum where people didn't rave about them (powersports, chainsaws). Wonder what the difference is that makes them not the magic juice for 4-strokes...

Then again I've never had one of my cars not run fine with ethanol (as opposed to a new chainsaw barely running at all), but I've definitely had gumming issues if they sit, some rather quickly. That did not used to be the case with the pure stuff.

-Rog

TEF1701

So after talking with a gearhead friend of mine, who has been an auto mechanic for his whole life, he said that ethanol treatments work to protect ethanol sensitive parts (plastic, rubber, ferrous metals, etc.) from degrading, along with preventing the ethanol-gas separation that happens rather quickly in E10 gas. The BIG problem is that they don't eliminate the ethanol from the gas, which is what causes all of the performance problems. He said that I will feel a difference in a small engine more because there are only one or two cylinders, so the rough effects of ethanol are much more localized. In car engines, where there are four or more cylinders, the effects are distributed over all of the cylinders, so you won't feel it as much. He did say that high compression engines will probably feel it more though because they are much more susceptible to changes in octane rating and quality of gas, among other things. Food for thought

TEF1701

I'm trying not to get too excited, but I'm about two days away from empty. That means I get to try non-ethanol gas for the first time in this car. Obviously any change in mileage won't be known for a long time, but any change in driveability should be noticed right away. I'll post my results as soon as I get them.

TEF1701

So I have used up an entire tank of non-ethanol gas and I was a bit surprised by the results. The idle smoothed out a bit, and it did seem to have a bit more oomph. That could just be wishful thinking though. My gas mileage went up from 22 to 25. I didn't change my driving style or drive any more highway miles on this tank. It has all been around town driving. Nothing mind blowing, but it is a result at least. Gonna go one more tank to see if the results repeat themselves.

TEF1701

Two tanks of non-ethanol gas down and I am consistently at 25mpg, up from 21-22mpg. This last tank got almost 25.5mpg. That matches the results that my uncle wrote down in his maintenance log from 10 years ago. I still have a slight issue with my idle, but it is better than it has been. I'm still not 100% convinced that my acceleration is better. I would have loved to do a 1/4 mile run before and after. I don't know if the cost difference is honestly worth the few extra miles per tank. Gonna go at least another tank and then do the math.

AudiCoupeGT1986

Thanks for posting your findings. Looking forward to the conclusion

TEF1701

I am 100% convinced that regular E10 gas is horrible and should be banned. I have been running E0 fuel (non-ethanol fuel) for the last 4 tanks of gas. Here are my conclusions:

1) MPG increased from 22 to 25. Last tank just yesterday was 25 on the dot.
2) Idle smoothed out without any adjustment to timing or any other components. Not perfect, but way better than it was.
3) Easier cold starts.
4) Better acceleration. I can really feel it on freeway on-ramps.

I think running E0 with a bottle of Techron every other tank has been clearing out some of the gunk that the E10 gas put in my fuel system. I can only imagine what the inside of my fuel distributor looked like before running the E0 gas.

On a side note, I decided to start running E0 in my 88 Toyota pickup, which has always run like a top, and my MPG went up from 16 average to almost 19 average. The cost per gallon or cost per mile savings is negligible, if anything a tad worse with E0, but I am going to keep running E0 simply because I don't like thinking about what the regular crap is doing to the inside of my cars.

JohnKo4kq

1) Automotive fuels that include ethanol do not exit for the good of the cars. The reasons for mixing ethanol w/gasoline are largely political. Using ethanol produced from corn is especially ridiculous.

2) The Techron may be performing some useful cleaning function, but there's no reason to suspect that ethanol is contributing to the "gunk" unless it's corrupting seals and such. It's just alcohol. Love Techron.

3) The likely reason for your perceived better running and improved fuel mileage is probably a function of the simple fact that gasoline by volume contains more potential energy that alcohol. E10 is a fuel with less energy, therefore with all other things being equal it's a less efficient fuel than gasoline.

4) Wish I had a choice. E10 is the rule here in MA.

TEF1701

I completely agree with you. I don't think that anyone, except for all of the eco-friendly people, will argue with the fact that E10 is a horrible, political blunder that should never have happened, and now they are pushing for E15 to be the "standard".

The most common reason for the gunk in the engine is from the reaction that ethanol has on older rubber fuel lines, gaskets, and ferrous metals. If they weren't designed to withstand it, it literally rots the fuel lines from the inside out, and all of that rubber "gunk" has to go somewhere. When you have fuel components with very tiny passages and tight tolerances, such as the fuel distributor, you end up with clogged ducts, fuel injectors, etc. When the ethanol comes in contact with ferrous metals, they start to corrode fairly quickly. That corrosion also has to go somewhere. You also end up with a nasty varnish from all of the leftovers when ethanol and gas separate.

Best thing to do is run E0. Least you can do is run some ethanol treatment to keep the fuel from separating and prevent the nastiness from killing your beloved car. I have also heard that some ethanol treatments contain additives that help restore some of the power that's lost from using E10 gas. Not sure how true that is though. I'll have to dig deeper.