front struts - Page 2

4Driver4 · 04-29-2012, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SloopJohnB@mac.com

?? I agree it's not a strut...but recognize the shck has a spring perch and a spring. It is in fact a coilover.

Truth.

Just Me · 04-29-2012, 05:23 AM

Let's look at this terminology two ways:

1. in the OP's content, really, ti doesn't matter. He intention was about the durability of hydraulic shocks. Since 99% of what people see are packaged within struts, the term is often (mis) used.

2. Are ours in fact struts?

The definition of a Macpherson strut is as follows:

"The MacPherson strut is a type of car suspension system which uses the axis of a telescopic damper as the upper steering pivot. It is widely used in modern vehicles and named after Earle S. MacPherson, who developed the design."

In our cars, the upright holds the integral hub, and pivots on a derived pivot point, not a single kingpin/etc. I dont believe the upper attachment point is one of the steering pivots. Correct me if you nwo better, and thus, they are not.

However, if you go to section 2-19 in Bentley, it labels the shock and spring assembly "strut". So that' the designation :-)

The egocentricity (coli-over) aspect that Sloop brought up is totally irrelevant to the design. You could have a torsion bar, an air bag, or mag lev and it could meet the design definition.

Grant

4Driver4 · 04-29-2012, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

1. in the OP's content, really, ti doesn't matter.

Agreed. But the discussion really should use the correct terms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

"The [b]MacPherson strut uses the axis of a telescopic damper as the upper steering pivot.

You are correct: the C5 suspension does not meet this criteria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

However, if you go to section 2-19 in Bentley, it labels the shock and spring assembly "strut". So that' the designation :-)

Bentley, as we all know, is often wrong. Calling it a strut does not make it a strut. It is a coilover assembly.

I apologize if I derailed the OP. This is, however, one of my pet peeves.

Just Me · 04-29-2012, 06:29 AM

In many ways, mine too, along with "coil-over".

c ya

G

4Driver4 · 04-29-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

In many ways, mine too, along with "coil-over".

c ya

G

LOL.
Well played.

old96A4 · 05-03-2012, 03:28 PM

All I was asking if the group felt the front shocks really go in these cars or could it be the control arms. Dealer told me that the shocks don't go in 100000 miles in these cars. Just wondering if it could be the control arms giving me a wobble when I hit a bump. No noise, I don't lose control. Been under the car checking control arms. Everything seems fine but sometimes it's hard to tell when the weight is still on the suspension. Can you get a wobble with a bad control arm? Lower front holds the shock so I think you can.

Just Me · 05-03-2012, 03:56 PM

i answered your question below, long long ago.

I'll do it again. The shocks are more durable than most in these cars, but all shocks deteriorate, and it is gradual. The shocks don't locate the hub so it cant create wobble. It can begin to oscillate up and down, or even near rattle.

If the hub is wobbling about its virtual kingpin, a control link must be bad. They can and do fail at both ends - one of the many ball joints (usually they get noisy first) or the rubber bushing at the other end. Check for play with a pry bar or even rock the wheel. You can se it done if you google "audi control arm test" or somesuch.

G

GTA_Driver · 05-03-2012, 04:39 PM

Some owners replace at around 100K miles because it "feels" worn to them.

I don't subscribe to such thinking. If it isn't broken, it isn't broken. There are many Audis with over 200K miles on original shocks. Not to say that some don't wear out sooner, but one should not "expect" it to go.

If anything, Audi shocks are more durable than many other manufacturers'.

SloopJohnB@mac.com · 05-04-2012, 02:19 PM

Yes, but, 'ain't broken' covers a lot of territory. Weak shocks allow suspension to bottom out and otherwise beat the heck out of balljoints and bushings as well as reduce handling on rougher roads.

It's the old pay me now or pay me later...$600 worth of shocks may save $4K worth of end suspension rebuild.

04-29-2012, 05:23 AM	#12
Just Me AudiWorld Super User Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,516	Let's look at this terminology two ways: 1. in the OP's content, really, ti doesn't matter. He intention was about the durability of hydraulic shocks. Since 99% of what people see are packaged within struts, the term is often (mis) used. 2. Are ours in fact struts? The definition of a Macpherson strut is as follows: "The MacPherson strut is a type of car suspension system which uses the axis of a telescopic damper as the upper steering pivot. It is widely used in modern vehicles and named after Earle S. MacPherson, who developed the design." In our cars, the upright holds the integral hub, and pivots on a derived pivot point, not a single kingpin/etc. I dont believe the upper attachment point is one of the steering pivots. Correct me if you nwo better, and thus, they are not. However, if you go to section 2-19 in Bentley, it labels the shock and spring assembly "strut". So that' the designation :-) The egocentricity (coli-over) aspect that Sloop brought up is totally irrelevant to the design. You could have a torsion bar, an air bag, or mag lev and it could meet the design definition. Grant __________________ glenahan@vee-eff-emaildotnet

04-29-2012, 06:29 AM	#14
Just Me AudiWorld Super User Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,516	In many ways, mine too, along with "coil-over". c ya G __________________ glenahan@vee-eff-emaildotnet

05-03-2012, 03:28 PM	#16
old96A4 AudiWorld Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: sunny , snowy central New York State Posts: 332	All I was asking if the group felt the front shocks really go in these cars or could it be the control arms. Dealer told me that the shocks don't go in 100000 miles in these cars. Just wondering if it could be the control arms giving me a wobble when I hit a bump. No noise, I don't lose control. Been under the car checking control arms. Everything seems fine but sometimes it's hard to tell when the weight is still on the suspension. Can you get a wobble with a bad control arm? Lower front holds the shock so I think you can. __________________ 2007 Q7 3.6 Premium 2003 A6 3.0 1980 MGB Limited 1959 Austin Healey 100-6 (under restoration) 2005 Ford Escape - Daughters

05-03-2012, 03:56 PM	#17
Just Me AudiWorld Super User Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,516	i answered your question below, long long ago. I'll do it again. The shocks are more durable than most in these cars, but all shocks deteriorate, and it is gradual. The shocks don't locate the hub so it cant create wobble. It can begin to oscillate up and down, or even near rattle. If the hub is wobbling about its virtual kingpin, a control link must be bad. They can and do fail at both ends - one of the many ball joints (usually they get noisy first) or the rubber bushing at the other end. Check for play with a pry bar or even rock the wheel. You can se it done if you google "audi control arm test" or somesuch. G __________________ glenahan@vee-eff-emaildotnet

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05-03-2012, 04:39 PM	#18
GTA_Driver AudiWorld Super User 2005 Audi Allroad Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,575	Some owners replace at around 100K miles because it "feels" worn to them. I don't subscribe to such thinking. If it isn't broken, it isn't broken. There are many Audis with over 200K miles on original shocks. Not to say that some don't wear out sooner, but one should not "expect" it to go. If anything, Audi shocks are more durable than many other manufacturers'.

05-04-2012, 02:19 PM	#19
SloopJohnB@mac.com AudiWorld Super User 2002 Audi S6 Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,152	Yes, but, 'ain't broken' covers a lot of territory. Weak shocks allow suspension to bottom out and otherwise beat the heck out of balljoints and bushings as well as reduce handling on rougher roads. It's the old pay me now or pay me later...$600 worth of shocks may save $4K worth of end suspension rebuild.