Turn key...nothing but dash lights

[Proph3t]

I just tested fuel was under pressure at the rail on the manifold. If its pressurized there then it should be at the injectors only inches away. I haven't removed the fuel pump at all...but earlier I had mentioned only removing and testing the fuel pump relay. Might be what you were thinking of there In regards to the ECU light, I cant ever recall that particular light ever showing at ignition or start. Either my models different there (being 1995), or the bulb is blown/missing. I know the layout of lights on mine is slightly different to whats posted above also. But again, I cant be 100% sure, which is frustrating me. I'm not sure why the crank sensor error isnt logging anymore, but I'm going to change out that sensor anyway as the connector is stuffed and cant be helping. Plus the symptoms point to that also with the recent errors that DID log there was no signal from it.

[Proph3t]

Been trying all morning to get the crank position sensor out, and it appears near impossible. Although I can *clearly* see the bolt from up top (cough cough), I cant get a good grab on it as there is a large pressed-metal shield of some description coming out of the back of the block almost covering it, meaning I have to go at it from a slight angle, not to mention I have about a foot of extensions to clear the head.

Access via the wheel well isnt much better, with 2 elbows on each arm and xray vision required. That shield sits about a half inch off the top of the sensor bolt, meaning my torx socket wont fit under. Tried just the torx fitting with a pair of pliers, but theres no room to move the pliers. Got a good fit with an Allan key but felt it was going to strip when I put load on it...which I dont want to do obviously.


Anyone removed the sensor before?
Is there a trick?
Is the bolt Allan key or Torx-30?
Can I remove that shield maybe? Has some pretty serious bolts holding it on, not sure what its for, but its in the bloody way

Its about to get flat-bedded to a mechanic (aka $$$) because I can only give it an hour a day between work and rain. What a bugger.

Also the sensor part is troubling me as there are 2 different connectors and 2 different sensor lengths. The only one I can get in Australia is 078906433A which has been mentioned several places, and is the oval connector with a short sensor, but apparently fitted to mine (so the cable says) is 077905381B which is the rectangle connector and longer sensor. Be nice to get it out and confirm though.

[tozoM8]

You need to do it from the bottom. 5mm Allen. Grey rectangle was for the older 32V motors. I took out a lot of them, never broke a bolt. There is a 5mm spacer between the bell housing and the sensor.

[Proph3t]

Thanks Tozo, thats the confirmation I needed. I've got a nice selection of Allen keys and Allen drivers etc in the workshop at work, so I've grabbed all of the 5mm ones and will give it another shot tonight by candle light

The grey rectangle makes sense as mine is a 1995 32v ABZ ("older").

Still lots of confusion over the part numbers as some guides show the long sensor with the rounder connector, then others show short sensor with rounder connector, then long & short sensor with square connector. Crazy. Assuming its a longer one by most of the pics of part #078906433A , but hoping its the shorter (same as #078906433A) as I can get that over night (genuine AU$97) and just trim the connector to make it work. They are all listed as same pinouts and 900ohm.

Thanks for your help!

[Proph3t]

So new ignition switch fixed the no start issue which begun this drama. No doubt I bumped the dodgily fixed (by previous owner) crank sensor connector while sorting that out, which caused the crank-but-no-fire issue and associated codes; so a new one sensor got it at least stuttering and spluttering...added 20L of fuel and after a few minutes of trying and some smoke it fired up to my shock and of all my new neighbours. I then drove it about 5km followed by my father, then up and down some hills it developed a miss from 1 to multiple cylinders and stopped, inconveniently on busy a round-about. It then wouldn't crank and acted like it was out of fuel. Towed it to my fathers, and pulled out the fuel filter by noticed although there was pressure when I undid the fittings, there wasn't really a lot of fuel pouring out as expected and previously experienced with that type of filter in that location (ie.Lexus SC300, exactly the same setup, pours out fuel like crazy). Installed a new filter, but still it didn't want to fire, just 1 or 2 cylinders randomly.

I pulled the fuel line off the inlet side of the filter and hung it in a plastic bottle, then primed, and cranked the engine. The results were less than impressive...after 10 primes and cranks I had about 5ml of fuel in the bottle. I was expecting it to blow the bottle off the hose. I then undid the output hose right on top of the pump and primed it with a rag over the outlet...basically nothing came out...definitely not enough to pressurise the line or fuel a V8.

So I have a fuel issue of some description now. I pulled out the entire fuel pump assembly ("fuel delivery system") and tested the pump directly in a bucket of fuel off a battery and it shot out a strong jet of fuel. So the pump itself is fine. Guess I need to check the voltage supply to the pump wiring encase its not getting enough voltage while in the car.

Everything else in the assembly is clean and nothing is broken. What could be the issue? I'm guessing it isn't priming now or something. It only had enough fuel in the system to get me nearly to my fathers; maybe the hills and tight corner on the round about upset the supply somehow.

Anything obvious I should look at?

I've replaced the small side house o-ring and getting the large 11cm o-ring at the centre of the housing. What about the metal mounted seals as in the picure?

Whats the best procedure for reinstalling the pump assembly?

Thanks again.

[silverd2]

Originally Posted by Proph3t

I pulled the fuel line off the inlet side of the filter and hung it in a plastic bottle, then primed, and cranked the engine. The results were less than impressive...after 10 primes and cranks I had about 5ml of fuel in the bottle. I was expecting it to blow the bottle off the hose. I then undid the output hose right on top of the pump and primed it with a rag over the outlet...basically nothing came out...definitely not enough to pressurise the line or fuel a V8.

"Primed.." ? ..How? ...just with ignition switch? ...added fuel? ...or direct 12V jump?

If it pumps full volume when "jumped" with direct 12V, but does not with ignition switch and start attempt, then something is not allowing continuous 12V to flow to the pump during or shortly after cranking. The fuel pump relay (if OK) has to get the OK from the crank sensor, ECM, central locking, etc..

If you haven't already, put a volt meter to the pump electrical leads (at the pump) and observe voltage supply while attempting to start. You could even run 12V directly to the pump (or wiring to pump at relay socket) from battery and attempt starting, to see if it is a voltage interruption.

AS for re-installing pump module >>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgOUgUm2JpY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no5K_...feature=relmfu

[Proph3t]

Well when I say "prime" I mean just the initial run the pump does when ignition is selected. I was just clicking the key to ignition, and it was only dribbling into the bottle. Even after lengthy cranking it wasn't producing anything useful. This was before removing the pump assembly, but after I just added 20L of fuel, then drove the several kilometres. There is fuel just above where that pictured seal sits. Guage reads 1/4 tank, but it's been known to bit inaccurate

I don't understand how it was able to fire and run for 10 minutes then just appear to run out of fuel, but still have plenty in the tank.

So as mentioned I will test the pump harness voltage while attempting to start, then also with a direct 12v supply from the battery. If it pumps fine I should hear the return fuel going back into the tank if the engine isn't running right?

Are there any in-tank filters? I see there are several pipes in the tank running off to both legs of the tank. Do I need to check these for blockages? I might also get a decent length of hose and siphon fuel from the very bottom of those tank legs and check there isn't any water contamination or something.

[silverd2]

Originally Posted by Proph3t

Well when I say "prime" I mean just the initial run the pump does when ignition is selected. I was just clicking the key to ignition, and it was only dribbling into the bottle. Even after lengthy cranking it wasn't producing anything useful. This was before removing the pump assembly, but after I just added 20L of fuel, then drove the several kilometres. There is fuel just above where that pictured seal sits. Guage reads 1/4 tank, but it's been known to bit inaccurate

I don't understand how it was able to fire and run for 10 minutes then just appear to run out of fuel, but still have plenty in the tank.

So as mentioned I will test the pump harness voltage while attempting to start, then also with a direct 12v supply from the battery. If it pumps fine I should hear the return fuel going back into the tank if the engine isn't running right?

Are there any in-tank filters? I see there are several pipes in the tank running off to both legs of the tank. Do I need to check these for blockages? I might also get a decent length of hose and siphon fuel from the very bottom of those tank legs and check there isn't any water contamination or something.

If the pump has been out and reinstalled incorrectly (pickups for both sides of tank not seated correctly) it will appear to run out of gas while gas is still present below about 1/2 tank. Also, adding a little gas temporarily primes the pump...it goes straight to the pump's "inner reservoir" before it goes to the bottom of the tank.

BUT, if you don't have uninterrupted 12V going to the pump during cranking, the problem is elsewhere in electrical system...pump relay, ground, crank sensor (or it's wiring), ignition switch or it's wiring, central locking module (or wiring to it), etc....

[Proph3t]

Well the pump hasnt been out since I owned it, if ever, so its something that has occurred while sitting the last 2 months. It was very low on fuel to the point it wouldnt start until I added the 20L, so maybe the act of adding fuel just filled the inner reservoir, enough to drive across town. I'm assuming the pump is running ok in the tank as it pumped strong for the short drive. But I'll need to wait until I confirm the voltage situation at the pump to be sure.

Wouldnt be a bad thing if I had to have a "pump" switch on the dash like my old rally car Classy.

Thanks.

[silverd2]

Originally Posted by Proph3t

Wouldnt be a bad thing if I had to have a "pump" switch on the dash like my old rally car Classy.

Thanks.

Funny, I added a pump switch to the dash of a '77 Golf GTi...a momentary switch, wired to the relay, I'd hold in till I heard the system pressurize. Eventually found a bad check valve that was allowing residual pressure to bleed off immediately after shutting off engine.
I still kept using it as long I owned the car...started up as quick as a carburetted engine. One of the few things I missed when fuel injection replaced carburetors..instant start...ports were already coated/dripping with gas