Puffs of white smoke

beforeyougo · 01-29-2012, 07:23 PM

After doing a head gasket change and then changing the engine block coolant tube o-rings, I ran the engine in idle for 20 minutes without any problems. Then took the car around the block a few times without any problems. Decided to go fill her up since she was at E, so i drove over to the gas station and again drove around for a few more blocks around the house. That's when I started to notice it kind of sputter every 15 seconds or so. Pulled into the garage and noticed that it would puff out a cloud of white smoke when it sputtered with smoke slowly coming out in between.

So the question is if anybody has an idea as to what this might be?

Could it be that since I drove it and it warmed a bit more than being in idle, that it's burning off some of the carb cleaner and loose carb from when I cleaned out the throttle body, egr, heads, and anything else?

But that leaves me to question why it's puffing out a cloud of smoke every so often. Misfire in one of the cylinders? Should I check compression?

Just some background info, I didn't have the heads milled because displacement looked good according to specs. I can't help but think that coolant is mixing with oil and is burning off hence the white smoke. Cracked head? But seems unlikely. Then again, you never know. Maybe I'll go around the neighborhood tomorrow to see if any coolant goes missing.

Then... I'm questioning if the gas I added is causing this issue since it happened after I tanked up. Not sure how that would effect it.

Guess I'm just looking for some feedback. Im running all these scenarios in my head that I dont know where to start anymore. Plus, its late and i dont feel ike standing over the car anymore. Any help would be great.

Cheers!

CRAZY_RUSSIAN · 01-31-2012, 09:02 AM

did you replace your spark plugs, and are they NGK's? :-) also i would do a compression test ;-)

hubturn · 01-31-2012, 11:43 AM

Why did you do the head gasket change? Did you use new head bolts? What did the pistons look like? Was one really clean? Did you do a compression check prior to the head gasket change? What coolant did you use?

beforeyougo · 01-31-2012, 07:07 PM

Yeah I replaced the spark plugs with NGKs.

As to why I changed the head gaskets, when I first got the car I had the clutch replaced and to boot the mechanic did a tune up for me. Comes out to be that they over torqued a spark plug stripping the thread and over time the spark plug shot out. Tried heli-coiling but it didn't hold all that well.

So when the cam seal started leaking oil I decided to throw on a new head and all the other work that comes with that, plus the valley pan gasket, new timing belt, icv clean, egr clean, and throttle body clean. Used new stretch bolts when I changed the head gaskets. The head gaskets weren't blown so I never had a reason to do a compression test and the pistons were dirty as can be when I lifted the head. As for the coolant, G12 all day every day.

hubturn · 02-01-2012, 05:23 AM

Sounds like all went per procedure. Seems like the big unknown is that new head. I've never had a pentosin leak, so I am not positive that it burns white, but I do know that prestone (old GM Cars) does burn white. If someone can confirm that pentosin burns white, an option would be to drain it and refill with water and then see if you still have white smoke. That doesn't address the sputtering issue though. Other posters have mentioned that they always resurface the heads (Crazy Russian, I believe). Some reading I've done indicates that aluminum heads are more suseptible to warpage than one would think. One article mentioned that with the block bolted on one end to an engine stand, there is enough flexion to cause the heads to warp, and to not torque the head bolts until the engine is back in the car or suitably supported. Considering it is a cast iron block, that surprised me.

beforeyougo · 02-02-2012, 07:01 AM

Ran the engine for a good 45 minutes in the garage with reving it last night until it started smoking again. I marked on the expansion tank where coolant line was , shut her down, and let her cool over night. Came back in the morning to see that the coolant was well under the marked line. Looks I have a coolant leak somewhere. What strikes me as odd is that I thought that if coolant was burning in the head that it would smoke as soon as the engine is started, but I could be wrong. Another thing that puzzles me is that after running the engine for 45 minutes it stopped smoking even when reved.

Regardless, I'm doing a compression this Saturday and I'll post the results.

Another thing that comes to mind is when I was torquing the head bolts on the right bank the 'POS' polydrive snapped on me on #4. So the center bolts where torqued and the others weren't and it took another week and half to get a new polydrive. This may have lead to some warping?

Prospeeder · 02-08-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beforeyougo

Ran the engine for a good 45 minutes in the garage with reving it last night until it started smoking again. I marked on the expansion tank where coolant line was , shut her down, and let her cool over night. Came back in the morning to see that the coolant was well under the marked line. Looks I have a coolant leak somewhere. What strikes me as odd is that I thought that if coolant was burning in the head that it would smoke as soon as the engine is started, but I could be wrong. Another thing that puzzles me is that after running the engine for 45 minutes it stopped smoking even when reved.

Regardless, I'm doing a compression this Saturday and I'll post the results.

Another thing that comes to mind is when I was torquing the head bolts on the right bank the 'POS' polydrive snapped on me on #4. So the center bolts where torqued and the others weren't and it took another week and half to get a new polydrive. This may have lead to some warping?

I think your jumping the gun. What does fluid do when it heats up and cools down? Expands and contracts. So the hot coolant in the bottle will contract and be lower when cold. Your "is it leaking" method is very very flawed, and i wouldnt suspect it until will you really have to add some. What does the smoke smell like. If its really coolant, its dead obvious, smells like maple syrup.

A missfire, sudden rich condition, carbon, or just moisture boiling out of the exhuast will cause white smoke. The engine/exhuast will create over a gallon of water per gallon of fuel burned. So If the exhaust is filling full of water, and exhaust temps finally reach a point that it vaporizes the water, it will suddenly smoke. Just idling, exhaust temps are pretty low.

beforeyougo · 02-08-2012, 05:47 PM

Thanks for the input prospeeder. I probably should have included some more info. As of last, I have had to add some coolant. Also, the white smoke does smell a bit sweet. The final kicker is that I pulled all the spark plugs and one of them has coolant residue on them. Have yet to do a compression test. Hoping to get it done in the next couple of days.

Prospeeder · 02-09-2012, 06:44 AM

thats too bad. and its on the side that you had half torqued for awhile? Unfortunatly that may have done it. Might just yank that head and have it machined and check out and reinstall it.

beforeyougo · 05-10-2012, 12:40 PM

Just wanted to update on what happened. Turns out everything was fine, even with having the head torqued half way. The smoke was just residual burning off and the sputtering came from cylinders 4 and 6 misfiring, code p0300. The reason they were misfiring was because I had those two ignition wires inverted. That took my neighbor(a infiniti tech) and i close to 2-3 hours to figure out and all we had to do was go back to the basics. Figures...

01-31-2012, 09:02 AM	#2
CRAZY_RUSSIAN AudiWorld Super User 1993 Audi 90 My Garage Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque,NM Posts: 2,062	did you replace your spark plugs, and are they NGK's? :-) also i would do a compression test ;-) __________________ 1993 Audi 90CS Quattro (loving it) new front struts, 034 control arm bushings, tie rods. mount savers. B5 sport rear springs/socks, B5 sport swaybar, B5 upper a-arms, 034street density trans mounts,17" ASA, head lights, aux gauges. blue plasma instrument cluster, A4 3 spoke steering wheel, aluminum subframe mounts) replaced a motor at the end of 2008, gasket matched heads, ARP head studs, air box velocity stack, 4 to 3 wire MAF conversion, 18.5lbs flywheel with SPEC stage 2 clutch. 1975 VW bus (gone) 1973 VW Super Beetle (what was i thinking?) 1968 VW Bug (my pride and joy) 2.5 inch front drop and disk brake conversion, 2110cc motor (in progress)new wiring harness,3 inch wider fenders all around, 195/45r15 front and 195/65r15 rear tiers 1991 GMC Sonoma RWD, manual, 4 banger (gone) 1979 Suzuki GS750EN with 31k original miles 1981 Suzuki GS750L (will be on a chopping block for a bobber) 1981 Yamaha XV920 1983 Yamaha XV750 (for g.f.) 1985 Dnepr MT10-36 (stolen) 1992 Dnepr MT11-32 (also stolen)

01-31-2012, 11:43 AM	#3
hubturn AudiWorld Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 453	Tell us more Why did you do the head gasket change? Did you use new head bolts? What did the pistons look like? Was one really clean? Did you do a compression check prior to the head gasket change? What coolant did you use?

02-02-2012, 07:01 AM	#6
beforeyougo Audiworld Junior Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 14	Ran it last night Ran the engine for a good 45 minutes in the garage with reving it last night until it started smoking again. I marked on the expansion tank where coolant line was , shut her down, and let her cool over night. Came back in the morning to see that the coolant was well under the marked line. Looks I have a coolant leak somewhere. What strikes me as odd is that I thought that if coolant was burning in the head that it would smoke as soon as the engine is started, but I could be wrong. Another thing that puzzles me is that after running the engine for 45 minutes it stopped smoking even when reved. Regardless, I'm doing a compression this Saturday and I'll post the results. Another thing that comes to mind is when I was torquing the head bolts on the right bank the 'POS' polydrive snapped on me on #4. So the center bolts where torqued and the others weren't and it took another week and half to get a new polydrive. This may have lead to some warping?

05-10-2012, 12:40 PM	#10
beforeyougo Audiworld Junior Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 14	update Just wanted to update on what happened. Turns out everything was fine, even with having the head torqued half way. The smoke was just residual burning off and the sputtering came from cylinders 4 and 6 misfiring, code p0300. The reason they were misfiring was because I had those two ignition wires inverted. That took my neighbor(a infiniti tech) and i close to 2-3 hours to figure out and all we had to do was go back to the basics. Figures...

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01-31-2012, 07:07 PM	#4
beforeyougo Audiworld Junior Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 14	More Yeah I replaced the spark plugs with NGKs. As to why I changed the head gaskets, when I first got the car I had the clutch replaced and to boot the mechanic did a tune up for me. Comes out to be that they over torqued a spark plug stripping the thread and over time the spark plug shot out. Tried heli-coiling but it didn't hold all that well. So when the cam seal started leaking oil I decided to throw on a new head and all the other work that comes with that, plus the valley pan gasket, new timing belt, icv clean, egr clean, and throttle body clean. Used new stretch bolts when I changed the head gaskets. The head gaskets weren't blown so I never had a reason to do a compression test and the pistons were dirty as can be when I lifted the head. As for the coolant, G12 all day every day.

02-01-2012, 05:23 AM	#5
hubturn AudiWorld Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 453	Sounds like all went per procedure. Seems like the big unknown is that new head. I've never had a pentosin leak, so I am not positive that it burns white, but I do know that prestone (old GM Cars) does burn white. If someone can confirm that pentosin burns white, an option would be to drain it and refill with water and then see if you still have white smoke. That doesn't address the sputtering issue though. Other posters have mentioned that they always resurface the heads (Crazy Russian, I believe). Some reading I've done indicates that aluminum heads are more suseptible to warpage than one would think. One article mentioned that with the block bolted on one end to an engine stand, there is enough flexion to cause the heads to warp, and to not torque the head bolts until the engine is back in the car or suitably supported. Considering it is a cast iron block, that surprised me.

02-08-2012, 05:47 PM	#8
beforeyougo Audiworld Junior Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 14	Thanks for the input prospeeder. I probably should have included some more info. As of last, I have had to add some coolant. Also, the white smoke does smell a bit sweet. The final kicker is that I pulled all the spark plugs and one of them has coolant residue on them. Have yet to do a compression test. Hoping to get it done in the next couple of days.

02-09-2012, 06:44 AM	#9
Prospeeder AudiWorld Senior Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 862	thats too bad. and its on the side that you had half torqued for awhile? Unfortunatly that may have done it. Might just yank that head and have it machined and check out and reinstall it.