Stock ECU vs. APR/Stasis Tune

[Ledznvrdead]

I understand the tremendous advantages of the APR/Stasis ECU tune, but what are the downsides other than potential warranty issues? Would there be a concern about extra stress on the engine? And more importantly, if there are no real concerns why wouldn't Audi just ship their vehicles like that stock?

[gunsmoker]

Originally Posted by Ledznvrdead

I understand the tremendous advantages of the APR/Stasis ECU tune, but what are the downsides other than potential warranty issues? Would there be a concern about extra stress on the engine? And more importantly, if there are no real concerns why wouldn't Audi just ship their vehicles like that stock?

Here are a few possible reasons/speculations:
- The APR tunes are for specific octane ratings. The engine may not run well or knock if you use such a tightly tailored tune with a wrong octane fuel. The worst that can happen if you use the factory program with a low octane fuel is that you won't get the rated power.
- You can be sure that Audi has tested their program in much wider conditions than APR, i.e. be able to start equally well in Greenland and Sahara, and if the tune works OK in moderate climates, it may have problems with extremes.
- You can be sure that Audi has tested the engine for wear and reliability with a much bigger sample size and mileage than APR and if they have decided to limit the engine, that is a practical limit driven by projections of how a bump in the engine output can cause increased sales that can offset the increased repair costs due to more frequent defects and wear during the warranty period.

All that said, if you do the tune and you don't see a problem under your driving conditions shortly, you may experience engine issues during your warranty period, which can be a sign for you to go back to the original program after the repair is done or get rid of the car.

The biggest problem really is if the dealer detects that and voids the warranty and you get to pay for problems that were not even caused by the tune.

I still haven't got a response how the APR software will act if the dealer tries to upgrade the ECU program. Being a software engineer with a hardware background I don't believe in this BS that there is no way for the dealer to easily detect that tune, short of sending the ECU to Bosch. Nevertheless, I want this tune as badly as you do, but I'm not a risk taker.

[efett]

The Stasis Tune does not void warranty. You will pay a lot more but I think it is worth keeping the warranty. My B8 should be in soon and the Stasis Tune will be the first thing on it.

[NickZag]

Originally Posted by Ledznvrdead

I understand the tremendous advantages of the APR/Stasis ECU tune, but what are the downsides other than potential warranty issues? Would there be a concern about extra stress on the engine? And more importantly, if there are no real concerns why wouldn't Audi just ship their vehicles like that stock?

Manufactures will always play it at safe as possible. Both Stasis and APR tunes are designed to play on the outer edge of the safe limits (timing, air/fuel mixture, etc). You would think companies like Ferrari and Lamborghini would be designed with the max performance but people still find ways to mod them.

Originally Posted by gunsmoker

I still haven't got a response how the APR software will act if the dealer tries to upgrade the ECU program. Being a software engineer with a hardware background I don't believe in this BS that there is no way for the dealer to easily detect that tune, short of sending the ECU to Bosch. Nevertheless, I want this tune as badly as you do, but I'm not a risk taker.

2bennett, where I had my APR tune installed, said that if a dealer had to do a software upgrade and re-burn your ECU back to stock, then the only charge would be the labor to reinstall the tune which is usually 1 hour. With the APR lock-out code, there is no way to switch out of stock mode unless you know the code. On top of that, there is a specific procedure that the dealerships must follow when diagnosing a problem (almost like a cook book). Breaking that procedure to get out of a repair would be against Audi's policy which if you took them to small claims court for charging on warranty work, they would lose for not following procedure. 2bennett is also an authorized Audi repair center and have been tuning Audi's and VW's for a long time and know they're stuff. Hopefully I'll never have to find out lol

Originally Posted by efett

The Stasis Tune does not void warranty. You will pay a lot more but I think it is worth keeping the warranty. My B8 should be in soon and the Stasis Tune will be the first thing on it.

Stasis only claims that they'll cover any work that the dealership deems to be caused by they're products. There are 2 Audi dealerships near me and I asked each of them. One will cover any issues caused by Stasis because they do in house tuning. The other dealership said any issue they found with the tune would be between the vehicle owner and Stasis. I think the way Stasis advertises that leaves them open for trouble.

[efett]

I was told that Audi "certified" Stasis to do the tuning as long as it was done by Stasis or an authorized dealer

[JD15]

Originally Posted by efett

I was told that Audi "certified" Stasis to do the tuning as long as it was done by Stasis or an authorized dealer

There are only agreements in place between individual dealers and Stasis, not between Audi Corporate and Stasis. Stasis promises to match the Audi warranty for any issues linked to the ECU tune and not covered by the Audi warranty; this is not the same as the Stasis tune being permitted under the standard Audi manufacturer warranty.

[gunsmoker]

There is another thing that comes to mind. Can't say I know that for a fact though.
After these tunes were released, Audi has probably had multiple newer versions of the software to deal with bugs and/or minor part changes (e.g. a sensor with a slightly different response) year over year.
I doubt that the tuning companies have stayed on top of that, providing a tune for all new Audi programs and part changes.
If you like to keep the software of all your gadgets and computers up-to-date, driving with a more powerful, but older program may bother you.

[MrStuff]

Originally Posted by gunsmoker

There is another thing that comes to mind. Can't say I know that for a fact though.
After these tunes were released, Audi has probably had multiple newer versions of the software to deal with bugs and/or minor part changes (e.g. a sensor with a slightly different response) year over year.
I doubt that the tuning companies have stayed on top of that, providing a tune for all new Audi programs and part changes.
If you like to keep the software of all your gadgets and computers up-to-date, driving with a more powerful, but older program may bother you.

Something here caught my eye. The car has load of various modules all interconnected. As an example, when you throw it into R (if you have a backup camera) the signal goes through 6+ different modules (in a series) before it signals the reverse camera.

That being said, the ECU is not "one big car computer" it does not control all the little gadgets. Therefor all those little updates to the Nav, Radio, etc will not affect a tune. (I've had experience where the dealer updated 6 or 7 various modules) I'm fairly confident that the ECU is only one of many modules, it's just the one that controls the "combustion".

[gunsmoker]

Originally Posted by MrStuff

Something here caught my eye. The car has load of various modules all interconnected. As an example, when you throw it into R (if you have a backup camera) the signal goes through 6+ different modules (in a series) before it signals the reverse camera.

That being said, the ECU is not "one big car computer" it does not control all the little gadgets. Therefor all those little updates to the Nav, Radio, etc will not affect a tune. (I've had experience where the dealer updated 6 or 7 various modules) I'm fairly confident that the ECU is only one of many modules, it's just the one that controls the "combustion".

We are talking about the engine management ECU. There are plenty of microprocessors in today's cars engaged even in things like windows and sunroof operation. Many of those chips are interconnected through a serial CAN or LIN bus which allows them to communicate with each other and be updated. No all of them support SW updates though.

[efett]

Originally Posted by JD15

There are only agreements in place between individual dealers and Stasis, not between Audi Corporate and Stasis. Stasis promises to match the Audi warranty for any issues linked to the ECU tune and not covered by the Audi warranty; this is not the same as the Stasis tune being permitted under the standard Audi manufacturer warranty.

I see thank you for that clarification