Slamming the clutch..?

nick.caro · 01-04-2005, 07:49 PM

OK,
this may sound like a joke and surely some may think that I have no business being in a manual. That's cool, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just cut me a little slack..

Today was my second day with the new ride. Its the first time I have owned a Manual Transmission car in over 10 years and I rarely drive anything other than an auto. Yet after test driving the Manual S4, I had to go for it.
I'm doing well with it so far, stalled a few times from stops on hills and otherwise I'm loving the shifting.

My question is;
How hard should I be releasing the clutch when going up the gears at a high rate of acceleration?
e.g. I'm at a stop sign with a big hill in front of me, I nail the gas, rev out to about 5k and then as I shift in to 2nd and 3rd I just let the clutch come back out without easing in to it and I get a hard kick.
The result is an abrupt force which I'm not sure if its a desired effect...
Should I be easing out the clutch like I do in normal driving to reduce that kick?

thanks in advance...

- nick

A4xIV / Nadroj · 01-04-2005, 08:03 PM

able to hold your car at slight greater than idle with the proper clutch and gas manipulation. You should NOT be getting huge kicks. It can be a sign of too high of rpm or too low of rpm in the next gear, or you are just releasing the clutch way to slow. Driving casually passengers should not be able to tell they are in a manual car.

nick.caro · 01-04-2005, 08:16 PM

so lets say I'm chillin in second gear getting ready to unleash the fury on an entrance ramp.

I pull in, the ramp is clear and I nail the gas. Then when I shift from 2nd to 3rd I let the clutch out full force so that when 3rd is engaged the car kicks with out any real transition in force. I noticed my friend in the passenger seat buck foward and then back as I make my shifts...

When doing these shifts, should I be easing out just enough so that there's no exceesive drop and pick up of force?

on the other spectrum of things, when I'm just tooling in city traffic, I try to make very smooth shifts so that the car rides nice and smooth..

maybe I need to go back to drivers ed.

- nick

Bergx7 · 01-04-2005, 08:22 PM

You need to chill in a parking lot for a few hours and get the hang of it man. Especially with this car i think people without much manual experience find it difficult to find that proper engagement point. What you want to eventually be able to do is let out the pedal rather quickly up until it just starts to catch. Then, (in one smooth motion and you will get it smooth if you practice) ease onto the gas (just to keep the rpms from dropping below 900) and ease off of the clutch so that it becomes fully engaged. In any given gear, you should be able to push in the clutch, shift and release the clutch without any jolt.
I realize that is tough since our engine is nice a rev happy (lightweight flywheel i suppose) so i will drop revs rather quickly if you arent on top of things. If you find the jolt is pulling you back (i.e. it throws you into the seatbelt) it means you waited to long to let the clutch out. If it feels like a swift kick in the ass (throws you forward) you let out the clutch too soon. Just practice, practice, practice and you will get it smooth.

Another tip for someone like you is to time lights....That is, watch out for the other lane's light to turn yellow when you are waiting at a red. When it does, depress the clutch and put it in first (shouldnt sit at a red with clutch in imho because it wears the master cylinder but thats a diff talk). Anyway, when the oncoming light turns red, you can start to ease off of the clutch and, when it just barely starts to engage, ease on to the gas. That way, when the light turns green, you are just inching off of the line and are not under pressure for a quick launch.

Furthermore, if you face a steep hill. start with the handbrake on. Put the car in first and depress the clutch (the handbrake keeping you from rolling backwards) and when you are ready to go, simply ease off of hte handbrake as you ease on to the gas/ease off of the clutch. As soon as you feel the car starting to push forward, you can let fully go of the handbrake and you are off! All without 5k launches and the most expensive smell in the world....clutch....(you have probabley had a whiff of it in the past few days

)

quench_dsm · 01-04-2005, 08:35 PM

hey, contrats on the new car! i was hooked the first time i test drove one too.

on a related note: you might want to browse through the section of the manual, owners that is, relating to the recommeded breakin period.

around here the consensus, should you choose to follow it, seems to be taking it pretty easy on the car the first 1k miles. then let'er rip!

nice photo too. i think it took me about 3 or 4 weeks before i could stand to be that close to my S4 with out driving it.

you have WAY more self control that i do.

anywho, welcome and enjoy!

RxAudi · 01-04-2005, 08:40 PM

RKA · 01-04-2005, 08:43 PM

1. You're not releasing the clutch at a variably rate of speed. Even on a fast shift, you slow the clutch pedal movement slightly right around the engagement point. Instead, but just snapping back the clutch, you're causing the clutch to engage rather violently. The engine rpms drop quickly to match the speed of the driveline, and the effect is similar to exaggerated engine braking. It's unpleasant, and you are abusing the car.

2. You are engaging the clutch properly, you're just shifting hard through the gears. If you shift hard through the gears, you can get a light *thunk* as each successive gear is engaged. It's almost as if the car is snapping into each gear.

The difference between 1 and 2 is merely whether you are slowing the clutch pedal movement right at the point of engagement.

My suggestion...just take it easy. Work your way up to faster and faster shifts. You'll get the hang of it as you try to shift faster and faster. You'll feel where the clutch is engaging, and what happens are you move the pedal through that point of engagement quickly, slowly, or moderately.

Schadenfreude · 01-04-2005, 08:51 PM

before the clutch has disengaged. If your passenger's head is slamming forward that abruptly, then you are letting the car engine brake slightly before you shift. I find that if I just back of the throttle without closing it entirely everything smooths out quite a bit. This will take practice since if you don't lift off enough you will be picking up revs instead of dropping

Ubersonic · 01-04-2005, 09:26 PM

imagine working up to faster shifting.

Find the "friction point" where steady throttle on flat ground will let you slowly move the car forward only be realising the clutch. Push clutch, car slows, slowly engage friction point car eases ahead.

Now,when you are doing this, imagine slowly squeezing that point, squeeze in with throttle, out with clutch. The stronger you imagine and then do squeeze this point, the faster the acceleration. IN fact, some have noted this slip point launch at about 3,000-3,500 to be the fastest 0-60 I believe. Just try to squeeze that point hard, not dump clutch, slam throttle.

Once you have this mastered from launch, the other shifts are easy. 1 to 2nd is the next hardest if not a bit harder since you are at speed and have the syncros to engage. But same smooth principal I think. The actual gearbox shift may be fast and smooth, and your footwork may be fast but if you don't slip the clutch as above in the 1-2-3 shifts you'll feel it. This engine has massive engine braking and you'll notice it shifts easier at higher RPM of course. (which is what you'll feel if you let off the throttle too fast also)

No dumping allowed.

nick.caro · 01-04-2005, 09:38 PM

Thank you for taking the time to type all of that out. I really need to chill and take my time easing in to it

01-04-2005, 07:49 PM	#1
nick.caro New Member Account #: 85839 Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 277	Slamming the clutch..? OK, this may sound like a joke and surely some may think that I have no business being in a manual. That's cool, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just cut me a little slack.. Today was my second day with the new ride. Its the first time I have owned a Manual Transmission car in over 10 years and I rarely drive anything other than an auto. Yet after test driving the Manual S4, I had to go for it. I'm doing well with it so far, stalled a few times from stops on hills and otherwise I'm loving the shifting. My question is; How hard should I be releasing the clutch when going up the gears at a high rate of acceleration? e.g. I'm at a stop sign with a big hill in front of me, I nail the gas, rev out to about 5k and then as I shift in to 2nd and 3rd I just let the clutch come back out without easing in to it and I get a hard kick. The result is an abrupt force which I'm not sure if its a desired effect... Should I be easing out the clutch like I do in normal driving to reduce that kick? thanks in advance... - nick __________________ - nick ...I drive a red one. tuifoto.com

01-04-2005, 08:03 PM	#2
A4xIV / Nadroj Elder Member Account #: 57272 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 23,587	you don't have to rev high when your on a hill. You should be able to hold your car at slight greater than idle with the proper clutch and gas manipulation. You should NOT be getting huge kicks. It can be a sign of too high of rpm or too low of rpm in the next gear, or you are just releasing the clutch way to slow. Driving casually passengers should not be able to tell they are in a manual car. __________________ -------- B7 A4 2.0T w APR Tuned K04 - Gone Now sporting 05 A8L 20x9 Sportec Wheels Vag-Com and Mechanical Lowering 35% Tint

01-04-2005, 08:16 PM	#3
nick.caro New Member Account #: 85839 Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 277	Re: Driving casually passengers should not be able to tell they are in a manual car. so lets say I'm chillin in second gear getting ready to unleash the fury on an entrance ramp. I pull in, the ramp is clear and I nail the gas. Then when I shift from 2nd to 3rd I let the clutch out full force so that when 3rd is engaged the car kicks with out any real transition in force. I noticed my friend in the passenger seat buck foward and then back as I make my shifts... When doing these shifts, should I be easing out just enough so that there's no exceesive drop and pick up of force? on the other spectrum of things, when I'm just tooling in city traffic, I try to make very smooth shifts so that the car rides nice and smooth.. maybe I need to go back to drivers ed. - nick __________________ - nick ...I drive a red one. tuifoto.com

01-04-2005, 08:22 PM	#4
Bergx7 Member Account #: 67849 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,134	ditto.... You need to chill in a parking lot for a few hours and get the hang of it man. Especially with this car i think people without much manual experience find it difficult to find that proper engagement point. What you want to eventually be able to do is let out the pedal rather quickly up until it just starts to catch. Then, (in one smooth motion and you will get it smooth if you practice) ease onto the gas (just to keep the rpms from dropping below 900) and ease off of the clutch so that it becomes fully engaged. In any given gear, you should be able to push in the clutch, shift and release the clutch without any jolt. I realize that is tough since our engine is nice a rev happy (lightweight flywheel i suppose) so i will drop revs rather quickly if you arent on top of things. If you find the jolt is pulling you back (i.e. it throws you into the seatbelt) it means you waited to long to let the clutch out. If it feels like a swift kick in the ass (throws you forward) you let out the clutch too soon. Just practice, practice, practice and you will get it smooth. Another tip for someone like you is to time lights....That is, watch out for the other lane's light to turn yellow when you are waiting at a red. When it does, depress the clutch and put it in first (shouldnt sit at a red with clutch in imho because it wears the master cylinder but thats a diff talk). Anyway, when the oncoming light turns red, you can start to ease off of the clutch and, when it just barely starts to engage, ease on to the gas. That way, when the light turns green, you are just inching off of the line and are not under pressure for a quick launch. Furthermore, if you face a steep hill. start with the handbrake on. Put the car in first and depress the clutch (the handbrake keeping you from rolling backwards) and when you are ready to go, simply ease off of hte handbrake as you ease on to the gas/ease off of the clutch. As soon as you feel the car starting to push forward, you can let fully go of the handbrake and you are off! All without 5k launches and the most expensive smell in the world....clutch....(you have probabley had a whiff of it in the past few days ) __________________ _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

01-04-2005, 08:35 PM	#5
quench_dsm Member Account #: 78456 Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 639	welcome! hey, contrats on the new car! i was hooked the first time i test drove one too. on a related note: you might want to browse through the section of the manual, owners that is, relating to the recommeded breakin period. around here the consensus, should you choose to follow it, seems to be taking it pretty easy on the car the first 1k miles. then let'er rip! nice photo too. i think it took me about 3 or 4 weeks before i could stand to be that close to my S4 with out driving it. you have WAY more self control that i do. anywho, welcome and enjoy! __________________ *2004 S4* light silver \| black/silver alcantara \| 6mt \| rns-e

01-04-2005, 08:40 PM	#6
RxAudi New Member Account #: 61513 Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 38	good questions, i'll be in a similar situation soon...

01-04-2005, 08:43 PM	#7
RKA Member Account #: 2062 Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 67,038	One of two things is happening... 1. You're not releasing the clutch at a variably rate of speed. Even on a fast shift, you slow the clutch pedal movement slightly right around the engagement point. Instead, but just snapping back the clutch, you're causing the clutch to engage rather violently. The engine rpms drop quickly to match the speed of the driveline, and the effect is similar to exaggerated engine braking. It's unpleasant, and you are abusing the car. 2. You are engaging the clutch properly, you're just shifting hard through the gears. If you shift hard through the gears, you can get a light thunk as each successive gear is engaged. It's almost as if the car is snapping into each gear. The difference between 1 and 2 is merely whether you are slowing the clutch pedal movement right at the point of engagement. My suggestion...just take it easy. Work your way up to faster and faster shifts. You'll get the hang of it as you try to shift faster and faster. You'll feel where the clutch is engaging, and what happens are you move the pedal through that point of engagement quickly, slowly, or moderately. __________________ 2005.5 A4 Avant 2.0T Quattro 6MT APR 91/93/100 \| APR Exhaust \| 19" BBS RS-GT's \| Carbonio \| Hotchkis \| Partridge-in-a-pear-tree Others: 2006 TL on the block 2001 S4 sold 2000 A4 sold * September 11th, 2001 - Never Forget *

01-04-2005, 08:51 PM	#8
Schadenfreude Member Account #: 76693 Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,756	Don't let up on the throttle so much. It sounds like your letting off the throttle quickly... before the clutch has disengaged. If your passenger's head is slamming forward that abruptly, then you are letting the car engine brake slightly before you shift. I find that if I just back of the throttle without closing it entirely everything smooths out quite a bit. This will take practice since if you don't lift off enough you will be picking up revs instead of dropping __________________ Rob "People are always sayin' 'Don't use alcohol as a crutch.' That's impossible. A crutch is something that would help me walk better. Alcohol is more like a step I did not see." - M.Hedberg

01-04-2005, 09:26 PM	#9
Ubersonic Audiworld Junior Member Account #: 67970 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 662	Yup, you're letting it out too quickly imagine working up to faster shifting. Find the "friction point" where steady throttle on flat ground will let you slowly move the car forward only be realising the clutch. Push clutch, car slows, slowly engage friction point car eases ahead. Now,when you are doing this, imagine slowly squeezing that point, squeeze in with throttle, out with clutch. The stronger you imagine and then do squeeze this point, the faster the acceleration. IN fact, some have noted this slip point launch at about 3,000-3,500 to be the fastest 0-60 I believe. Just try to squeeze that point hard, not dump clutch, slam throttle. Once you have this mastered from launch, the other shifts are easy. 1 to 2nd is the next hardest if not a bit harder since you are at speed and have the syncros to engage. But same smooth principal I think. The actual gearbox shift may be fast and smooth, and your footwork may be fast but if you don't slip the clutch as above in the 1-2-3 shifts you'll feel it. This engine has massive engine braking and you'll notice it shifts easier at higher RPM of course. (which is what you'll feel if you let off the throttle too fast also) No dumping allowed. __________________ Brakes: DBA 4000 rotors, SS lines, pagid/bobcats/motul 600 H-sport sways front/rear Wheels: RS4 forged 19x8 reps/falken 452, OEM/Blizzak LM -25 AWE pedals/ultimate dead pedal 35% tint Hoen H6W's

01-04-2005, 09:38 PM	#10
nick.caro New Member Account #: 85839 Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 277	Re: ditto.... Thank you for taking the time to type all of that out. I really need to chill and take my time easing in to it __________________ - nick ...I drive a red one. tuifoto.com

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