turbine housing install (wrap-up)

sTTanford · 03-26-2003, 01:20 AM

been a crazy few days at work, so haven't had time to write stuff up. summary: i swapped turbine housings on my GT30R turbo, going from a 0.63A/R to a 0.48 A/R. friday: got everything off. took all afternoon/evening. no, i'm not retarded. things are really tight back there, and i have to disassemble the turbo while it is still attached to get it off. saturday: everything re-installed, but exhaust leak. sunday: isolated exhaust leak to downpipe, cranked on the studs, SNAP. many expletives. Monday: took the turbo off agian, drilled the broken stud out (on a mill, didnt even have to retap threads), re-installed... ENGINE OVERHEATING!

tuesday (today): after finishing up work, i decided i needed to get my baby on a lift so i was gonna pray to the car gods and drive up to Tomas sport tuning (berkeley area, about 60 min drive) with heaters blaring and windows down. for some odd reason though, the engine stopped overheating. up on the lift, i bled the coolant and found i had some how gotten lotsa airbubbles in it. so overheating was probably caused by the waterpump pumping air.

anyway, all that solved, and car is running smooth. pushes 20psi easily to redline, although i still havent fine-tuned my BOV and boost controller so it is having problems keeping the boost nailed at 20 when i redline. the smaller housing makes a big difference, and it spools much faster. i hit 15 psi at 3.6kRPM in 5th gear. 20 psi hits around 4kRPM. butt dyno says this baby hauls! will try and dyno before weeks end.

pictures:

this entire escapade was all to swap the left housing with the right housing!

also upgraded hose clamps in preparation for higher boost. old above, new below.

new studs/nuts seen on DP above. the rusty color stuff is liquid gasket that i was using to trace the exhaust leak. and no, i don't use gaskets on the downpipe or manifold.

all done baby!

hopefully i can finally get to these tmrw!

signing off in TT land...

Qu!cksilva · 03-26-2003, 03:21 AM

Granted I would still have a ways to go what with programming and all But I am looking into the future for upgrades...

Let me know...

M,

Power5 · 03-26-2003, 05:37 AM

I don't understand or notice a difference between the two housings. Also, when does the new A/R run out of steam, theoretically.

I have been waiting for you to complete this so I can ride your coatails and put one on my 225. Not a 4" inlet though, just a normal small 3". I read how much it was to get that 4" in there, and don't want to attempt. Were all your pipes custom made? Do you have any pics of the inlet pipe before installed? Comparison to the stock?

TIA

TTigg · 03-26-2003, 06:44 AM

so what do you think are the cost(s) of this is someone (others) were to try this. I have a master Audi mechanic who could do the work or is this type of conversion only doable (cost wise) with most of the work being done by oneself?

- parts cost?
- estimated hours?
- estimated final numbers - 400hp + as you thought?
- doable for 225

I know you're busy so answers when you can (email is also good)

sTTanford · 03-26-2003, 07:07 AM

i think. although i hear APR's stuff is custom made so they may not tell me. what we'd need to do is take some dimensions off the manifold while it isn't on the car. happen to have a spare one? i happen to have my old turbine housing right now, so we could use that.

also, i'm slowly but steadily piecing together a stand-alone unit (MAP sensor, no MAF) for our car. no point in wetting your noodle trying to figure out tuning just yet, but know that stand-alone is an option.

sTTanford · 03-26-2003, 07:30 AM

hm, ya need to read corky bell's maximum boost. i can recommend 2 or 3 more books on turbocharging if you plan on going custom. i actually took a class at my school (guess where!? hehe) on uniphase flow that included a section on turbine/compressors. point being, A/R is a pretty key concept. the two housings dont look different because externally, they ARENT different. the A/R is different inside. you see it "tapers" down like a snail's shell? A/R (area ratio) is the ratio of the cross-sectional area of the flow path to the radius (from the turbo center to the center of cross-sectional flow). that ratio is maintained throughout the turbocharger in order to minimize head loss (making it more efficient).

anyway, hit me an email if you want my 2 cents on all this stuff. again, i would recommend buying some books because even if i think i know what i'm talking about, tis must better to trust a book than some random forum member.

the new housing should stil be able to push 55 lbs (of air)/min. i'll never get near that though...

how did i get the piping done? usually, a shop will just piece togheter stuff, butt-welding together pipes to get the right shape. then, you send that off to a tube shop that has a mendrel bender and they remake the tube out of one piece. in mycase, i towed my car down to the nearest competent mandrel bender (bakersfield, about 5 horus from me), and had them build right on the car. cost was around $1K for all IC piping, 3" downpipe, the whole exhaust system.

inlet comparison?
hmm...

OEM on the left, neuspeed TIP on the right...

that would be my current turbo inlet "pipe"

my compressor inlet

sTTanford · 03-26-2003, 07:45 AM

hey michael, i've never sat down and added everything up, but i can give you a shopping list:
turbo $1750 (street price)
manifold $300
piping $1500 (chromed)
IC $500
intake $200 (piping)
wastegate $300 (? i forgot, it is a Tial 35/40)
BOV $200 (? HKS Super Seq)
225 intake manifold $250
injectors $500
FPR $150
clutch+fw $1300

getting time to run to work so i'll stop there. where the cost adds up is buying stupid things like coolant feed fittings, oil lines, banjo bolts, i dunno, crap like that.

besides the pipes, the actual install of the turbo, manifold, intake, FMIC, pipes, and all the hardware, took me a solid week of work, with the guys at Tomas Sport Tuning helping the whole way. mind you, custom work means you don't have a kit ready and waiting with all the parts you need, so there was lots of time lost trying to procure parts that work. on top of that, there was the clutch swap (which i've now done 3 times? twice? i forget) which takes a solid day of work. everything came off for the chroming too. really hard to estimate but maybe 80 hours for a full install? even if you had all the parts pre-assembled.

just the parts above adds up to $6800, and that was only the major stuff that i remmeber off the top of my head. u throw in my muffler and hi-flow cat and that puts you over $7K, just in parts.

you also need a new ECU ($500) and ATP'S EEPROM ($300?) if you want it tuned by them. electronics you need are a boost controller (~$400), an EGT and a boost gauge ($100~400), which tips the total near $8500. i'd say i easily push $12K in parts and labor...

in comparison, MTM's kit is $11K parts at 326 hp, so for a one-off kit i'm right on par with MTM =)

hehe, after writing up that receipt, i REALLY gotta get to work!!

TTigg · 03-26-2003, 09:45 AM

so what kind of power do you think you'll end up with?

FasTT 225 · 03-26-2003, 01:53 PM

03-26-2003, 01:20 AM	#1
sTTanford Junior Member Account #: 24809 Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,409	turbine housing install (wrap-up) been a crazy few days at work, so haven't had time to write stuff up. summary: i swapped turbine housings on my GT30R turbo, going from a 0.63A/R to a 0.48 A/R. friday: got everything off. took all afternoon/evening. no, i'm not retarded. things are really tight back there, and i have to disassemble the turbo while it is still attached to get it off. saturday: everything re-installed, but exhaust leak. sunday: isolated exhaust leak to downpipe, cranked on the studs, SNAP. many expletives. Monday: took the turbo off agian, drilled the broken stud out (on a mill, didnt even have to retap threads), re-installed... ENGINE OVERHEATING! tuesday (today): after finishing up work, i decided i needed to get my baby on a lift so i was gonna pray to the car gods and drive up to Tomas sport tuning (berkeley area, about 60 min drive) with heaters blaring and windows down. for some odd reason though, the engine stopped overheating. up on the lift, i bled the coolant and found i had some how gotten lotsa airbubbles in it. so overheating was probably caused by the waterpump pumping air. anyway, all that solved, and car is running smooth. pushes 20psi easily to redline, although i still havent fine-tuned my BOV and boost controller so it is having problems keeping the boost nailed at 20 when i redline. the smaller housing makes a big difference, and it spools much faster. i hit 15 psi at 3.6kRPM in 5th gear. 20 psi hits around 4kRPM. butt dyno says this baby hauls! will try and dyno before weeks end. pictures: this entire escapade was all to swap the left housing with the right housing! also upgraded hose clamps in preparation for higher boost. old above, new below. new studs/nuts seen on DP above. the rusty color stuff is liquid gasket that i was using to trace the exhaust leak. and no, i don't use gaskets on the downpipe or manifold. all done baby! hopefully i can finally get to these tmrw! signing off in TT land... __________________ -Ken Project BOOSTTT: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 Intake Manifold Project: 1 GReddy Turbo Timer install GReddy Profec-B Install sTTanford's Fotki Account

03-26-2003, 03:21 AM	#2
Qu!cksilva Junior Member Account #: 3088 Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 4,406	Ken....dya think that turbo would bolt up to the APR manifold? Granted I would still have a ways to go what with programming and all But I am looking into the future for upgrades... Let me know... M, __________________ APR Stage 3,APR DP,APR Exhaust,GruppeM intake,Extrude Honed intake manifold,DV Relo,Greddy DV,Diesel Geek SS,B+M SS,ECS Knob,BilstienPSS9's,Neuspeed sways F+R,Haldex Blue,Recaro Pole Position seats,Harness bar,BBS LM's,Porsche brakes,3.2 nose,SGI CF spoiler,Boostmachine,Kenwood/gamin nav...Phoenix gold and adcom amps,Infinity perfect speakers,Riso CF parking brake and door pulls,Riso euro corners,rear seat delete,Ipod integration,Euro mirrors,optima battery,Forge rear control arms,Kmac bushings,Ground control camber plates,Defi Boost gauge,CDNTT gauge pod,revo technik gauges HR spacers Forge FMIC... The list just keeps on growing...and the Roach keeps on going

03-26-2003, 05:37 AM	#3
Power5 Junior Member Account #: 21940 Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,741	What is in those 3 boxes? Also a question about the turbo. I don't understand or notice a difference between the two housings. Also, when does the new A/R run out of steam, theoretically. I have been waiting for you to complete this so I can ride your coatails and put one on my 225. Not a 4" inlet though, just a normal small 3". I read how much it was to get that 4" in there, and don't want to attempt. Were all your pipes custom made? Do you have any pics of the inlet pipe before installed? Comparison to the stock? TIA __________________ Aaron Cincinnati, OH 2001 TT 225 blk/blk(13.6@98mph w/1.7 60') 3" CB with Flowmaster and H&R Coilovers 1992 Passat Wagon aka: the draggin wagon

03-26-2003, 06:44 AM	#4
TTigg Senior Member Account #: 17897 Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 9,058	simply awesome Ken so what do you think are the cost(s) of this is someone (others) were to try this. I have a master Audi mechanic who could do the work or is this type of conversion only doable (cost wise) with most of the work being done by oneself? - parts cost? - estimated hours? - estimated final numbers - 400hp + as you thought? - doable for 225 I know you're busy so answers when you can (email is also good) __________________ ..."never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"... TTigg's Fotki (inc drive pics & mods)

03-26-2003, 07:07 AM	#5
sTTanford Junior Member Account #: 24809 Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,409	hm, i can find out. garrett guys are coming up next week i think. although i hear APR's stuff is custom made so they may not tell me. what we'd need to do is take some dimensions off the manifold while it isn't on the car. happen to have a spare one? i happen to have my old turbine housing right now, so we could use that. also, i'm slowly but steadily piecing together a stand-alone unit (MAP sensor, no MAF) for our car. no point in wetting your noodle trying to figure out tuning just yet, but know that stand-alone is an option. __________________ -Ken Project BOOSTTT: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 Intake Manifold Project: 1 GReddy Turbo Timer install GReddy Profec-B Install sTTanford's Fotki Account

03-26-2003, 07:30 AM	#6
sTTanford Junior Member Account #: 24809 Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,409	3 boxes are Defi Link BF gauges. inlet comparison? hm, ya need to read corky bell's maximum boost. i can recommend 2 or 3 more books on turbocharging if you plan on going custom. i actually took a class at my school (guess where!? hehe) on uniphase flow that included a section on turbine/compressors. point being, A/R is a pretty key concept. the two housings dont look different because externally, they ARENT different. the A/R is different inside. you see it "tapers" down like a snail's shell? A/R (area ratio) is the ratio of the cross-sectional area of the flow path to the radius (from the turbo center to the center of cross-sectional flow). that ratio is maintained throughout the turbocharger in order to minimize head loss (making it more efficient). anyway, hit me an email if you want my 2 cents on all this stuff. again, i would recommend buying some books because even if i think i know what i'm talking about, tis must better to trust a book than some random forum member. the new housing should stil be able to push 55 lbs (of air)/min. i'll never get near that though... how did i get the piping done? usually, a shop will just piece togheter stuff, butt-welding together pipes to get the right shape. then, you send that off to a tube shop that has a mendrel bender and they remake the tube out of one piece. in mycase, i towed my car down to the nearest competent mandrel bender (bakersfield, about 5 horus from me), and had them build right on the car. cost was around $1K for all IC piping, 3" downpipe, the whole exhaust system. inlet comparison? hmm... OEM on the left, neuspeed TIP on the right... that would be my current turbo inlet "pipe" my compressor inlet __________________ -Ken Project BOOSTTT: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 Intake Manifold Project: 1 GReddy Turbo Timer install GReddy Profec-B Install sTTanford's Fotki Account

03-26-2003, 07:45 AM	#7
sTTanford Junior Member Account #: 24809 Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,409	first attempt at cost and labor: hey michael, i've never sat down and added everything up, but i can give you a shopping list: turbo $1750 (street price) manifold $300 piping $1500 (chromed) IC $500 intake $200 (piping) wastegate $300 (? i forgot, it is a Tial 35/40) BOV $200 (? HKS Super Seq) 225 intake manifold $250 injectors $500 FPR $150 clutch+fw $1300 getting time to run to work so i'll stop there. where the cost adds up is buying stupid things like coolant feed fittings, oil lines, banjo bolts, i dunno, crap like that. besides the pipes, the actual install of the turbo, manifold, intake, FMIC, pipes, and all the hardware, took me a solid week of work, with the guys at Tomas Sport Tuning helping the whole way. mind you, custom work means you don't have a kit ready and waiting with all the parts you need, so there was lots of time lost trying to procure parts that work. on top of that, there was the clutch swap (which i've now done 3 times? twice? i forget) which takes a solid day of work. everything came off for the chroming too. really hard to estimate but maybe 80 hours for a full install? even if you had all the parts pre-assembled. just the parts above adds up to $6800, and that was only the major stuff that i remmeber off the top of my head. u throw in my muffler and hi-flow cat and that puts you over $7K, just in parts. you also need a new ECU ($500) and ATP'S EEPROM ($300?) if you want it tuned by them. electronics you need are a boost controller (~$400), an EGT and a boost gauge ($100~400), which tips the total near $8500. i'd say i easily push $12K in parts and labor... in comparison, MTM's kit is $11K parts at 326 hp, so for a one-off kit i'm right on par with MTM =) hehe, after writing up that receipt, i REALLY gotta get to work!! __________________ -Ken Project BOOSTTT: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 Intake Manifold Project: 1 GReddy Turbo Timer install GReddy Profec-B Install sTTanford's Fotki Account

03-26-2003, 09:45 AM	#8
TTigg Senior Member Account #: 17897 Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 9,058	Thanks - awesome news so what kind of power do you think you'll end up with? __________________ ..."never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"... TTigg's Fotki (inc drive pics & mods)

03-26-2003, 01:53 PM	#9
FasTT 225 Junior Member Account #: 36734 Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 571	wow, simply awesome, u ever get that ABT lip installed? __________________

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