Audi TT detailed engine review and info on fuel economy

John, you said it all again. Makes sense to me.

Hey guys, Lets forget all this stuff and go out and drive our cars like hell. 150 h.p. is enough for me and any more just gets me into trouble. Start 'em up men.

Audi got 180 hp out of the 150 hp 1.8t EXACTLY the way the aftermarket tuners did!

And I personally love the way most cars with sport springs and high performance dampers feel. Many factory "sport" packages are copying that aftermarket favorite now also. What's so terrible about feeling like you are going faster? It's legal!

The TT 225 is largly vaporware. The aftermarket 1.8t (230-240 hp) engines have far more real world testing on them already. Facts indeed...

I have in the order of 275 hp, and it's not enough. Vrooom!

If there is a problem, you are probably correct. But, you must not have much confidence in Audi's powerplants. I do. Since Audi used software themselves to create a 180 hp TT, I guess they have confidence.

A philosophical argument.....

I am not going to argue the virtues of BMW vs. Audi here, but I it is interesting that among M3 owners it is extremely rare to find one bone stock. And if you do, I can almost guarantee the owner has plans. Maybe it is because the confidence in the drivetrain and suspension are so high that nobody thinks twice. And, M3s start out more powerful and expensive.

I think part of the attitude here is "pseudo purist" in nature. "Audi was kind enough to give us the TT, so whatever vision they had must not be tampered with. It's so new, it's so perfect." Hogwash! I can't wait to get mine and make it better.

Have either of you guys ever owned a modern European tuner car? I didn't think so.

It's amazing, you guys are afraid this car will blow up! Something else that is amazing, try finding someone at a BMW or VW/Audi show with a tuner car (which almost everyone has) whining about being refused warranty work, or whining about even needing it! Juries and Attorneys just don't come up as a hot topic. The people whining are the ones who don't like the smell coming from the AC vents when they first activate the AC. And people who think the car is out of alignment because they can't drive down a rut infested highway in a straight line using one finger (allowing them to talk on the cellphone AND read the newspaper).

BTW, You need to go back and read the Magneson Moss Act. It covers almost every aftermarket modification, not just filters and wipers.

If you want to play, get off the starter slopes! What's funny is that in 2-3 years, this forum will be filled with people talking about high flow intakes, engine management software, exhausts and wheels. I will guarantee it!

I've seen in in person at Willow Springs and had it confirmed by SCCA BMW M3 racers. BMW's answer? Overfill the crankcase! So much for German engineering. I've never met an owner of a tuner car who didn't have to make excuses for always crawling back in the engine bay to fix something...or to return a chip because it didn't last three months...or who didn't end up admitting that their aftermarket suspension made the car ride like a sled. And you'll find that Audi didn't just ad a chip to get 180 hp...they did a lot more than the aftermarket does. When you really get into the aftermarket...you see that it really costs a lot more than they promised...suddenly you're tearing everything apart and rebuilding it. And it still won't last. Once again Todd...there's no such thing as a free lunch. Even the guys at Andial never claimed that aftermarket tuning didn't reduce the life expectency of the components.

Take a look inside the 225 engine. It is built to sustain the horsepower. Look at the difference between racing engines and street engines. Even with the overdesign...a racing engine only has to get to the finish line to do it's job. Short squirts up to 120 mph and then going out for burgers isn't high performance. Try putting a car on a race track for a solid hour of ten tenths driving. Max rpm, every gear every lap, max on the brakes, for a solid hour. Most of the tuner cars I've seen can't cut it. The last M3 I saw try it went home on a flatbed because the owner didn't know about the problem with oil pick up at high g's.

Funny, I have raced my M3, and I know and talk to many M3 owners, and I have never heard of oil starvation problems. BTW, a bone stock M3 IS nothing but a tuner car. M is nothing but a tuning firm. I will not be part of a slam fest against BMW nor Audi. You'll have to have that discussion with someone more loyal. It would be easy enough for me to talk about the 3 Audi's I saw go up in smoke just to agitate, wouldn't it?

Take a look inside any engine, and even if you have a degree in mechanical engineering, you will be hard pressed to tell where weaknesses will be in the real world. I am pretty sure neither of us are qualified. Self appointed or otherwise. The best laid plans of mice and men......

You need to go to the M Haven Forum and;

1. Find someone who doesn't race.
2. Find someone who hasn't modified their car.
3. Find someone who isn't a BMW CCA member.
4. Find someone complaining about an oil starvation problem.
5. Find someone complaining about their cars "riding like sleds" (BTW, bad analogy, I live in the snow belt and sleds ride really well, making it sound like a compliment, which I'm sure was not your intention)

These are people free from "uptightness" and having a hell of a lot of fun with their cars. I can find no fault with that. Also, unlike almost anyone here, they actually have the car. What they do to those cars is no prediction. I guess it will just take this group a while to get to that point.

It's easy for someone insecure enough to need to find fault in another marque to look really hard for any weakness. I won't sink to that level, because I am not that insecure, and I love Audis and BMWs. And, I know where you are trying to go. Sorry.

You keep talking about chips. New OBDII cars do not have chips. And a chip that "didn't last three months"?? What, did they forget to oil them? Widespread chips "going bad" is ludicrous. It's no more likely than the stock chip "going bad". It's as likely as the one this forum is running on "going bad". Or, the one in your computer. Not impossible, but not likely. It's a chip, not a wear item.

I don't think anyone claims that tuning doesn't effect the lifespan of a drivetrain any more than common sense dictates that driving in stop and go urban traffic for hours in the dog days of summer with the AC cranked every day will effect a cars lifespan. Why do you think people mention, and are attracted by "highway miles" when they sell/buy a used car?

In the end, I own a tuner car and you don't. It runs & rides exactly the way I want it to. The ones I have sold are running perfectly also. My friends bought them and they are still my friends. Real world experiences. "'Nuff said"