Can 440cc/min injectors @ 4 bar (~510cc/min) support 600+ chp?

PSmalls::DoggieStyle · 01-17-2006, 10:14 AM

I've seen several injector duty cycle logs of K04 based turbo cars (straight K04s and assorted K04 hybrids) running 440cc/min injectors @ 4bar. Many had duty cycles over 100% and a select few had 02 voltages leaning out up top as duty cycles continued to rise. With that said, ASP claims to use 440cc/min injectors @ 4bar on their GT25 kit. I'm curious how the ASP GT25 kit can make much more power than these K04 based cars mentioned above if the injectors are one of the limiting factors. Thanks for any insight you guys can give on the subject. I'm looking for an infomational thread addressing my question so PLEASE don't turn this into a flame war as this was not my intention.

DAP@EPL · 01-17-2006, 10:29 AM

The ASP car maintained an excellent AFR with good duty cycles on those 42# injectors. Quite impressive.

-Dave Pramanik

~~Mark@AutoSpeed~~ · 01-17-2006, 10:30 AM

Honestly we were not expecting the amount of fuel to be adequate. By all calculations the BSFC is on the low side approx. 0.5@100%, 0.55@105%DC

Happy tooning!

Mike2kS4 · 01-17-2006, 10:31 AM

I think the leaning out was more of a software issue in it's dealing with accelerative loads.

E Vader · 01-17-2006, 10:35 AM

It seems as though the addition of a higher flow fuel pump on the list of parts for the ASP kit is an attempt to up overall delivery.

So if pressure is presumably upped by a high flow fuel pump and injector pulse width is increased it would seem that a relationship between load based pulse width and injector firing syncronized with intake valve actuation might stretch some of the generalizations established with typical injector sizing.

I agree that 600chp seems a bit much for the 510cc delivery.

[badmoon] · 01-17-2006, 10:38 AM

I can't remember off the top of my head. And what would the theoretical ceiling be?

~~Mark@AutoSpeed~~ · 01-17-2006, 10:40 AM

~~Mark@AutoSpeed~~ · 01-17-2006, 10:40 AM

Snow Trooper Is Numb · 01-17-2006, 10:41 AM

these cars are capable of much more power if you just simply get the IATs DOWN and the timing up. one good way to do this is not having a fine oil mist in the intake anymore because that causes detonation due to the fuels octane level being deminished and lots of thermal coatings and heat wraps.

440 are fine for lots of stuff

Imolavirus@BuehnEngineering · 01-17-2006, 10:44 AM

01-17-2006, 10:14 AM	#1
PSmalls::DoggieStyle Elder Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 30,257	Can 440cc/min injectors @ 4 bar (~510cc/min) support 600+ chp? I've seen several injector duty cycle logs of K04 based turbo cars (straight K04s and assorted K04 hybrids) running 440cc/min injectors @ 4bar. Many had duty cycles over 100% and a select few had 02 voltages leaning out up top as duty cycles continued to rise. With that said, ASP claims to use 440cc/min injectors @ 4bar on their GT25 kit. I'm curious how the ASP GT25 kit can make much more power than these K04 based cars mentioned above if the injectors are one of the limiting factors. Thanks for any insight you guys can give on the subject. I'm looking for an infomational thread addressing my question so PLEASE don't turn this into a flame war as this was not my intention.

01-17-2006, 10:29 AM	#2
DAP@EPL Audiworld Sponsor Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 19,700	The S4 seems almost magical in its fueling abilities... The ASP car maintained an excellent AFR with good duty cycles on those 42# injectors. Quite impressive. -Dave Pramanik __________________

01-17-2006, 10:30 AM	#3
~~Mark@AutoSpeed~~ Banned Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,745	FWIW our DC% is approx. 100% at 5500, then 105% (6000) to a taper 98% by 7000... Honestly we were not expecting the amount of fuel to be adequate. By all calculations the BSFC is on the low side approx. 0.5@100%, 0.55@105%DC Happy tooning!

01-17-2006, 10:31 AM	#4
Mike2kS4 AudiWorld Super User Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,096	Yes. I think the leaning out was more of a software issue in it's dealing with accelerative loads. __________________ 2002 S4 Avant, 6spd. Bone stock. <a href="http://www.autospeed.us"> </a> Caveat: Any advice I express regarding potential tuning and such is purely informational. If your knowledge and abilities are not up to the task, no amount of advice can assist.

01-17-2006, 10:35 AM	#5
E Vader Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,996	IMO, ASP adresses this with fuel delivery. It seems as though the addition of a higher flow fuel pump on the list of parts for the ASP kit is an attempt to up overall delivery. So if pressure is presumably upped by a high flow fuel pump and injector pulse width is increased it would seem that a relationship between load based pulse width and injector firing syncronized with intake valve actuation might stretch some of the generalizations established with typical injector sizing. I agree that 600chp seems a bit much for the 510cc delivery. __________________ .......balance and focus before power.

01-17-2006, 10:38 AM	#6
[badmoon] Senior Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 6,020	What is the fuel delivery for RS4 injectors and 5bar FPR? I can't remember off the top of my head. And what would the theoretical ceiling be?

01-17-2006, 10:40 AM	#7
~~Mark@AutoSpeed~~ Banned Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,745	Not attempt, it is needed. Quick calcs showed a min. of 185lt/hr fuel flow at full load

01-17-2006, 10:40 AM	#8
~~Mark@AutoSpeed~~ Banned Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,745	Stop worrying at 5bar even, 255lph is a plenty! =)

01-17-2006, 10:41 AM	#9
Snow Trooper Is Numb Junior Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	i have been trying to tell people these cars are capable of much more power if you just simply get the IATs DOWN and the timing up. one good way to do this is not having a fine oil mist in the intake anymore because that causes detonation due to the fuels octane level being deminished and lots of thermal coatings and heat wraps. 440 are fine for lots of stuff

01-17-2006, 10:44 AM	#10
Imolavirus@BuehnEngineering AudiWorld Super User Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 17,943	IAT's up? you mean down right? ;) __________________ -Jacob ^^^CLICK SIG FOR BUEHN ENGINEERING WEBSITE^^^ <big><big>Website Here!!!</big></big> <big>Items For Sale</big>

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