FINALLY - S4 with K04 and running Alcohol - FATS inside

KramS4 · 12-31-2005, 01:31 PM

After more than 6 months since my K03 gave up, I finally logged my car with a VAG.

My car is running on K04, piggie DP, no cats, 3inch exhaust, stock IC, UNICHIP (piggyback), 2 auxiliary injectors, 2 parallel fuel pumps.

Ethanol has ~35% less energy, but due to a 43% more volume for stoich mixture, it is 11% more powerful than gas. It has 120oct equivalent.

I`m running 17,5psi for a while to test this configuration. I did few logs and I am not used to VAG yet.

UNICHIP was adjusted with 15 to 25 degrees more on timing advance than stock. My CFs are between 3 to 9 (similar to a stock RS4). For fuel it was adjusted on the rich side using a WB lambda meter.

The auxiliary fuel injectors are running on the bipipe and cools the intake at WOT. Due to the High Heat Specific of Ethanol my IAT comes from 80oC to 20oC when WOT. It is summer here and the outside temperatures are on low 30oC.

Here is my first FATS (remembering the difference that I found on gearing). Stock car at sea level with me and my brother (190kg).

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/21/fats4rw.jpg

I am very happy with the results and I am going to improve it with new injectors and more boost.

Regards,
Mark

PS: I would like to thank every one that helps me in the last months with my very difficult problems to solve (it was a faulty ECU).

Snow Trooper Is Numb · 12-31-2005, 01:52 PM

S4mig@PEB tuning · 12-31-2005, 01:54 PM

s4what? · 12-31-2005, 02:05 PM

I don't understand the FATS calculations - Euro & US?

Enigmagic · 12-31-2005, 05:04 PM

his transmission has a different 3rd gear ratio.

KramS4 · 12-31-2005, 06:36 PM

KramS4 · 12-31-2005, 06:39 PM

The 3rd gear is different from the US-Spec. So I did like ENIGMATIC said. Did a "FATS" based on speed to be compared to the US cars and one with the full 4200-6500rpm.

KramS4 · 12-31-2005, 06:45 PM

The ECU worked for almost everything. My car was running on alcohol.

After changed to K04 I went for a new calibration for the UNICHIP. Whatever we did to richen up the fuel, the ECU (we didn`t know that was the ECU) pulled back. We open the suplementary injectors full on, and the stocks went off to lean the mixture. There was no errors and no other sign comming from the ECU. So after many many tries we finally found another S4 (it is very few in Brazil) to swap the ECU and make a test.

It was not as simple, cause the Euro-spec need the big key from Germany to unlock the immobilizer with the new ECU and so.....

I`m happy that it is ready for the new year.

Flyboy · 12-31-2005, 09:50 PM

understand it, ethanol has in the neighborhood of 60% of the heating value of gasoline, about 12k BTU/lb for ethanol versus ~20k BTU/lb for gasoline. If 14.7:1 is stoichiometric for gas, and for ethanol is 9:1, then you are burning about 1.6 pounds of ethanol to 14.7 pounds of air, what it takes to burn 1 pound of gasoline. If you compare the energy content of 1.6 pounds of ethanol (~19-20k BTU) to 1 pound of gasoline (~20k BTU), the heat energy produced is almost identical for the two. I'm wondering how you got that ethanol is 11% more powerful?

KramS4 · 01-01-2006, 05:13 AM

differences on your statement. Ethanol has 29,9MJ/kg and gasoline ~44MJ/kg. The difference on stoichiometric is 14,7/9=1,63. So 1,63/(44/29,9)=~1,11.

And that is not the end. Ethanol burns much slower (more work due to more timing advance) and burns much cleaner, so no deposits. There are other benefits like raising the dynamic compression due to "less" volume to the same amount of air (~43% more fuel in volume, giving about 5% more dynamic compression).

Alcohol is great!
The problems are very low autonomy and the cold weather start.

12-31-2005, 01:31 PM	#1
KramS4 New Member Account #: 88233 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 148	FINALLY - S4 with K04 and running Alcohol - FATS inside After more than 6 months since my K03 gave up, I finally logged my car with a VAG. My car is running on K04, piggie DP, no cats, 3inch exhaust, stock IC, UNICHIP (piggyback), 2 auxiliary injectors, 2 parallel fuel pumps. Ethanol has ~35% less energy, but due to a 43% more volume for stoich mixture, it is 11% more powerful than gas. It has 120oct equivalent. I`m running 17,5psi for a while to test this configuration. I did few logs and I am not used to VAG yet. UNICHIP was adjusted with 15 to 25 degrees more on timing advance than stock. My CFs are between 3 to 9 (similar to a stock RS4). For fuel it was adjusted on the rich side using a WB lambda meter. The auxiliary fuel injectors are running on the bipipe and cools the intake at WOT. Due to the High Heat Specific of Ethanol my IAT comes from 80oC to 20oC when WOT. It is summer here and the outside temperatures are on low 30oC. Here is my first FATS (remembering the difference that I found on gearing). Stock car at sea level with me and my brother (190kg). http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/21/fats4rw.jpg I am very happy with the results and I am going to improve it with new injectors and more boost. Regards, Mark PS: I would like to thank every one that helps me in the last months with my very difficult problems to solve (it was a faulty ECU).

12-31-2005, 01:52 PM	#2
Snow Trooper Is Numb Junior Member Account #: 101085 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	holy crap, what just hapened?

12-31-2005, 01:54 PM	#3
S4mig@PEB tuning Elder Member Account #: 54947 Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,903	So are you runing gas with alky injection, or straight alky? __________________ <a href="http://account.audiworld.com/users/20137.phtml"> </a> AIM: aSmig4 My favorite "tuner" quote, now deleted: "If you had purchased our kit you car would still be a nice 2002 S4 instead of a big pile of blue garbage." Bob@strat. describing BuffaloNogaro's car. Do tuners lie? FOD kills.

12-31-2005, 02:05 PM	#4
s4what? Member Account #: 30356 Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,303	Appears alky injection - looks like he's in Australia I don't understand the FATS calculations - Euro & US? __________________ Engine Simulator Dahlback Stage 3, other stuff If you live in the NYC Metro area you NEED aftermarket security - if you don't have it WILL be stolen

12-31-2005, 05:04 PM	#5
Enigmagic Member Account #: 25541 Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,114	the "euro" fats is equiv to our times based on mph, the "usa" fats is equiv based on rpm his transmission has a different 3rd gear ratio. __________________ 2001.5 s4 nogaro avant. motor rebuild in progress

12-31-2005, 06:36 PM	#6
KramS4 New Member Account #: 88233 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 148	Full Alcohol. All the stock injector plus 2 suplementary on the bipipe.

12-31-2005, 06:39 PM	#7
KramS4 New Member Account #: 88233 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 148	I`m in Brazil. We have the choice for Ethanol on every gas station. The 3rd gear is different from the US-Spec. So I did like ENIGMATIC said. Did a "FATS" based on speed to be compared to the US cars and one with the full 4200-6500rpm.

12-31-2005, 06:45 PM	#8
KramS4 New Member Account #: 88233 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 148	The ECU started to work weird. But first we tried almost every single sensor in the car. The ECU worked for almost everything. My car was running on alcohol. After changed to K04 I went for a new calibration for the UNICHIP. Whatever we did to richen up the fuel, the ECU (we didn`t know that was the ECU) pulled back. We open the suplementary injectors full on, and the stocks went off to lean the mixture. There was no errors and no other sign comming from the ECU. So after many many tries we finally found another S4 (it is very few in Brazil) to swap the ECU and make a test. It was not as simple, cause the Euro-spec need the big key from Germany to unlock the immobilizer with the new ECU and so..... I`m happy that it is ready for the new year.

12-31-2005, 09:50 PM	#9
Flyboy AudiWorld Super User Account #: 4736 Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,504	Could you elaborate on how ethanol ends up being more powerful than gas. As I understand it, ethanol has in the neighborhood of 60% of the heating value of gasoline, about 12k BTU/lb for ethanol versus ~20k BTU/lb for gasoline. If 14.7:1 is stoichiometric for gas, and for ethanol is 9:1, then you are burning about 1.6 pounds of ethanol to 14.7 pounds of air, what it takes to burn 1 pound of gasoline. If you compare the energy content of 1.6 pounds of ethanol (~19-20k BTU) to 1 pound of gasoline (~20k BTU), the heat energy produced is almost identical for the two. I'm wondering how you got that ethanol is 11% more powerful? __________________ <url="http://www.myaudis4.com/index.htm"> <img]http://www.myaudis4.com/sig.gif</img></url> <url="http://www.motorists.org/">National Motorists Association</url>

01-01-2006, 05:13 AM	#10
KramS4 New Member Account #: 88233 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 148	Ok, I`m not used to non-metric system, but you can accounts for certain differences on your statement. Ethanol has 29,9MJ/kg and gasoline ~44MJ/kg. The difference on stoichiometric is 14,7/9=1,63. So 1,63/(44/29,9)=~1,11. And that is not the end. Ethanol burns much slower (more work due to more timing advance) and burns much cleaner, so no deposits. There are other benefits like raising the dynamic compression due to "less" volume to the same amount of air (~43% more fuel in volume, giving about 5% more dynamic compression). Alcohol is great! The problems are very low autonomy and the cold weather start.

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