For those that were following the MTM stage 4/5 thread...

AudiSport44 · 11-15-2005, 06:41 PM

I finally talked to Hoppen today. I was told the only difference between their stage 4 and 5 programs is that the later requires thicker headgaskets, which they sell for $189/piece, and of course, the software. They won't let you have the stage 5 without these. I don't see it as being a requirement but they say it's needed for safety and that even other tuners that run those kinds of hp numbers and boost purchase these gaskets from them. I don't know how much of that is true. Anyways, if you have another one of their programs, they will charge you around $150 for labor to solder the new chip on your board. I have the stage 3 right now so I think I will be going this route because I need something to run the K04's I'm putting in. As always, remember that these stages don't correspond with AW stuff. If you have any questions, post them on here.

My2ndS4 · 11-15-2005, 06:49 PM

nyet · 11-15-2005, 06:50 PM

i.e. slowwwwwww

Hal_TT::CBP · 11-15-2005, 06:50 PM

My2ndS4 · 11-15-2005, 06:57 PM

FrozenS4 · 11-15-2005, 07:48 PM

most US based Audi tuners . There products have been developed on a engine dyno under contolled and endless repeatable conditions for real world driving not forum bragging and 5sec peak hp wheel dynos for marketing purposes. That is also the reason why they don't have software revision stg 666 with 69 differnt flow straighteners or airfilters. GIAC has not the know how to strap a recent motronic engine on a engine dyno , period.

Now , there safety approach is common for european tuners due to the less restrictive speed limits there = Autobahn = WOT for extended periods of time will EXPOSE any tuning short comings with damaged motors. This can be duplicated on a good load dyno , like holding it at 6000 rpms for 3-5 minutes and that would be the true hp/tq rating of a engine not some peak blitz.
If some of those 500 or whatever hp S4's would follow the same protocol you would see some very long faces, but on Audiworld MTM is slow and dumb and homebrew/GIAC/AWE is the bomb.

SchagenWagen · 11-15-2005, 07:52 PM

They charged me and quoted to someone two months ago $60 for soldering.
Get the stage 5 software even if you need to spend $380 for headgaskets. You can sell those after if not needed.

PSmalls::DoggieStyle · 11-15-2005, 07:55 PM

Most, almost none, of the forum members here keep their cars at that type of load. Therefore, we don't need something tuned to that extent like in Europe. This is evident by the fact that cars tuned extremely aggressively (in your opinion based on what you're saying) here are not encountering engine problems of any type even with tens of thousands of miles on them.

I totally understand where MTM is coming from and respect what they're doing. In fact, I've seen great results from MTM K04 cars and don't consider them slow at all. With that said, I'm 99.99% sure you'd be fine with MTM stage 5 and no headgaskets if you aren't under load for an extremely extended period of time (several minutes of 6k RPM or half an hour on a dyno or whatever).

With all that said, Verruckt is homebrew over in Europe and spends a ton of time at WOT with no ill effects AFAIK. In addition, my homebrw car sees a good amount of track time with no ill effects. Take that with a grain of salt, though. Just trying to look at it from both sides, attempting to be as objective as possible here.

JoeyJoJoeJrShabadoo · 11-15-2005, 07:57 PM

Show us the results! Dynos, 1/4 mile times etc. Prove the superiority. Right now US based tuners such as GIAC and APR have these - haven't seen much on the MTM stuff. Granted, there's a wider world outside AW (gasp!), but we haven't seen much.

SchagenWagen · 11-15-2005, 08:08 PM

Since Verruckt is European contributor of AW, perhaps he is not in liberty to answer that, but do you know if he raced with that Nogaro S4 in Prague ?

11-15-2005, 06:41 PM	#1
AudiSport44 AudiWorld Senior Member Account #: 34883 Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,788	For those that were following the MTM stage 4/5 thread... I finally talked to Hoppen today. I was told the only difference between their stage 4 and 5 programs is that the later requires thicker headgaskets, which they sell for $189/piece, and of course, the software. They won't let you have the stage 5 without these. I don't see it as being a requirement but they say it's needed for safety and that even other tuners that run those kinds of hp numbers and boost purchase these gaskets from them. I don't know how much of that is true. Anyways, if you have another one of their programs, they will charge you around $150 for labor to solder the new chip on your board. I have the stage 3 right now so I think I will be going this route because I need something to run the K04's I'm putting in. As always, remember that these stages don't correspond with AW stuff. If you have any questions, post them on here.

11-15-2005, 06:49 PM	#2
My2ndS4 Member Account #: 46878 Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,321	hmm, so that doesn't use an upgraded maf? They must scale the stocker somehow. __________________ Thinking about changing your cv boot? Read this first. OEM Pressure Plate part numbers Dead Battery? My FATS Tests How to install usb to serial converter for lemmiwinks on windows xp (UPDATED!) Adjust the latency timer to 1ms if Lemmiwinks still doesn't work Fuel Pressure Regulator Seal Kit There is a second fuse on the back of the radio I am not a mechanic nor an expert in Audi repair/tuning. In no way are my posts meant to replace professional consultation.

11-15-2005, 06:50 PM	#3
nyet Member Account #: 13093 Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 33,114	i dont see how. the signal itself will max out i.e. slowwwwwww __________________ ------------------------------------- "It's easier to practice medicine without a license in this country than it is to get info on tuning Motronic." -JasonS9 ECUxPlot - my java based ECUx/VAGCOM/VCDS plotter My hacked version of Flyboy's ECUx template. S4Wiki - CONTRIBUTE TODAY! Web based FATS calculator for ECUx and VAGCOM logfiles Sync your iPod under Linux! Definitive S4 DIY Thread of Doom AWOT Brain Trust #101 AWOT Axis of Evil Member #6 Member, Aw0t Fish Taco Dinner Club I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone." - Jack Valenti, President and CEO of the MPAA this site is NOT for information sharing it's strictly for multiple monologues that result in none of the participants changing their point of view - frank

11-15-2005, 06:50 PM	#4
Hal_TT::CBP Senior Member Account #: 3027 Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 9,679	Not scaled, just uses the fuel loop above ~315gs flow. Think thats the max on the Hitachis anyway. __________________ Hal. Whoops... I wanna ride... APR Stg3 (and then some) Sold.

11-15-2005, 06:57 PM	#5
My2ndS4 Member Account #: 46878 Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,321	ok, that makes more sense. __________________ Thinking about changing your cv boot? Read this first. OEM Pressure Plate part numbers Dead Battery? My FATS Tests How to install usb to serial converter for lemmiwinks on windows xp (UPDATED!) Adjust the latency timer to 1ms if Lemmiwinks still doesn't work Fuel Pressure Regulator Seal Kit There is a second fuse on the back of the radio I am not a mechanic nor an expert in Audi repair/tuning. In no way are my posts meant to replace professional consultation.

11-15-2005, 07:48 PM	#6
FrozenS4 Junior Member Account #: 85329 Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 587	MTM has a completly different approach to tuning than most US based Audi tuners . There products have been developed on a engine dyno under contolled and endless repeatable conditions for real world driving not forum bragging and 5sec peak hp wheel dynos for marketing purposes. That is also the reason why they don't have software revision stg 666 with 69 differnt flow straighteners or airfilters. GIAC has not the know how to strap a recent motronic engine on a engine dyno , period. Now , there safety approach is common for european tuners due to the less restrictive speed limits there = Autobahn = WOT for extended periods of time will EXPOSE any tuning short comings with damaged motors. This can be duplicated on a good load dyno , like holding it at 6000 rpms for 3-5 minutes and that would be the true hp/tq rating of a engine not some peak blitz. If some of those 500 or whatever hp S4's would follow the same protocol you would see some very long faces, but on Audiworld MTM is slow and dumb and homebrew/GIAC/AWE is the bomb.

11-15-2005, 07:52 PM	#7
SchagenWagen Junior Member Account #: 44371 Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,361	Re: For those that were following the MTM stage 4/5 thread... They charged me and quoted to someone two months ago $60 for soldering. Get the stage 5 software even if you need to spend $380 for headgaskets. You can sell those after if not needed.

11-15-2005, 07:55 PM	#8
PSmalls::DoggieStyle Elder Member Account #: 69223 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 30,285	I actually think you are pretty much spot on with a lot of what you said here, but.... Most, almost none, of the forum members here keep their cars at that type of load. Therefore, we don't need something tuned to that extent like in Europe. This is evident by the fact that cars tuned extremely aggressively (in your opinion based on what you're saying) here are not encountering engine problems of any type even with tens of thousands of miles on them. I totally understand where MTM is coming from and respect what they're doing. In fact, I've seen great results from MTM K04 cars and don't consider them slow at all. With that said, I'm 99.99% sure you'd be fine with MTM stage 5 and no headgaskets if you aren't under load for an extremely extended period of time (several minutes of 6k RPM or half an hour on a dyno or whatever). With all that said, Verruckt is homebrew over in Europe and spends a ton of time at WOT with no ill effects AFAIK. In addition, my homebrw car sees a good amount of track time with no ill effects. Take that with a grain of salt, though. Just trying to look at it from both sides, attempting to be as objective as possible here.

11-15-2005, 07:57 PM	#9
JoeyJoJoeJrShabadoo Senior Member Account #: 30779 Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 8,487	I'm gonna play devil's advocate here Show us the results! Dynos, 1/4 mile times etc. Prove the superiority. Right now US based tuners such as GIAC and APR have these - haven't seen much on the MTM stuff. Granted, there's a wider world outside AW (gasp!), but we haven't seen much.

11-15-2005, 08:08 PM	#10
SchagenWagen Junior Member Account #: 44371 Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,361	Something I was gonna ask you... Since Verruckt is European contributor of AW, perhaps he is not in liberty to answer that, but do you know if he raced with that Nogaro S4 in Prague ?

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