Pulled a 5.33 FATS today... Tweaking my APRv5 based Stg3-, Part 2

BoneStockS4 · 10-17-2005, 08:10 PM

Well, I can't say that its fast... but it is *faster*

This weekend I installed a Darintake with big ITG filter stuffed inside in an effort to cure my car's wheeze (on loan from LI-S4, thank!!). It made an immediate difference in overall smoothness, but no real effect on speed. So tonight I tried a few more Lemmiwink settings to see if I could enhance performance a bit.

First thing I checked was LTFTs and saw that with +4.88% primary fuel as my only tweak, I was about -2 at idle and -4 at part. From my understanding this means the car was slightly adjusting for a rich condition, indicating that I'm ok with primary fueling (ii could be off base on the LTFT thing though). I had logged the O2's previously with the stock intake and saw about 0.865V from ~4000rpms to redline. For some reason my car sticks to ~0.845V below ~4000rpms, and then steps up by 0.02V and stays there to redline (MBC maybe? Gotta log boost...)

So looking at my trends the car ran ~5.9 FATS with no lemmiwink tweaks, ~6.2 with +4.88% primary, and ~6.5 FATS with +8% primary. So it would seem APR likes to run a bit lean on my car. Based on feedback from others I decided to stick with +4.88% primary as the O2 voltages looked the safest/most ideal.

So on the way home tonight I added 1.5 degrees of timing. I also reduced accel and decel fueling to ~98% based on KOPORK's feedback that it may help responsiveness. I noticed the decel tweak right away in the lack of exhaust burble when off throttle. The responsiveness is markedly improved, but I think that is due more to the additional timing.

The additional timing seems to be helping quite a bit and was noticed right away by the butt dyno. It also appeared to drop my FATS time significantly. My O2 voltages were at 0.84V below ~4000 and at 0.86V from ~4000rpm to redline, with a brief blip up at the highest rpms to 0.88V (probably from when I lift off the throttle). CFs stayed below 3, and LTFTs when I got home were clsoe to what they were before at -2.4/-2.6 idle, -3.9/-7 part. I may try a little more timing next.

For giggles, here is a plot of my airflow with the stock intake to compare with the Stage 2 Darintake:

It looks like a pretty consistent gain of 8 to 9 g/s, especially in the middle rpms. Not bad I suppose.

Anyway, thanks for reading this far! I still have a lot of work to do, but in general the car feels a lot better. Thanks for the help so far ppl!

Distinct · 10-17-2005, 08:17 PM

Good stuff, congratulations on the improvements. You have an AIM or MSN ID?

Imolavirus@BuehnEngineering · 10-17-2005, 08:17 PM

My2ndS4 · 10-17-2005, 08:18 PM

BoneStockS4 · 10-17-2005, 08:20 PM

Didn't want to over do it

Baby steps, baby steps...

Or maybe I just have to grow a pair :-P

BoneStockS4 · 10-17-2005, 08:22 PM

All my knowledge is derived from right here on AW. That is to say I could be completely off on everything

Anyway, my AIM is BoneStockS4 :-P

BoneStockS4 · 10-17-2005, 08:23 PM

Imolavirus@BuehnEngineering · 10-17-2005, 08:24 PM

i just thought there may have been some other limiting factors that were causing you to not increase timing.

Everything else looks good though...just wait until you get some fueling in there

BoneStockS4 · 10-17-2005, 08:34 PM

On one hand I'm thinking AWE stg3, but on the other hand I feel like that is a waste of the K16's. From taking with Mike2kS4 it seems like these turbos whould be happiest at higher boost levels than what the AWE K04 code will request.

So I may still go with an EBC and standard GIAC X at some point... For now I think I'll wait and see what other people come up with! In this case: Follow > Lead :-P

Imolavirus@BuehnEngineering · 10-17-2005, 08:38 PM

going homebrew definately takes some time to perfect but it does allow more changes from differing hardware......not to mention a bit cheaper.

10-17-2005, 08:10 PM	#1
BoneStockS4 AudiWorld Senior Member 2002 Audi S4 Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,719	Pulled a 5.33 FATS today... Tweaking my APRv5 based Stg3-, Part 2 Well, I can't say that its fast... but it is faster This weekend I installed a Darintake with big ITG filter stuffed inside in an effort to cure my car's wheeze (on loan from LI-S4, thank!!). It made an immediate difference in overall smoothness, but no real effect on speed. So tonight I tried a few more Lemmiwink settings to see if I could enhance performance a bit. First thing I checked was LTFTs and saw that with +4.88% primary fuel as my only tweak, I was about -2 at idle and -4 at part. From my understanding this means the car was slightly adjusting for a rich condition, indicating that I'm ok with primary fueling (ii could be off base on the LTFT thing though). I had logged the O2's previously with the stock intake and saw about 0.865V from ~4000rpms to redline. For some reason my car sticks to ~0.845V below ~4000rpms, and then steps up by 0.02V and stays there to redline (MBC maybe? Gotta log boost...) So looking at my trends the car ran ~5.9 FATS with no lemmiwink tweaks, ~6.2 with +4.88% primary, and ~6.5 FATS with +8% primary. So it would seem APR likes to run a bit lean on my car. Based on feedback from others I decided to stick with +4.88% primary as the O2 voltages looked the safest/most ideal. So on the way home tonight I added 1.5 degrees of timing. I also reduced accel and decel fueling to ~98% based on KOPORK's feedback that it may help responsiveness. I noticed the decel tweak right away in the lack of exhaust burble when off throttle. The responsiveness is markedly improved, but I think that is due more to the additional timing. The additional timing seems to be helping quite a bit and was noticed right away by the butt dyno. It also appeared to drop my FATS time significantly. My O2 voltages were at 0.84V below ~4000 and at 0.86V from ~4000rpm to redline, with a brief blip up at the highest rpms to 0.88V (probably from when I lift off the throttle). CFs stayed below 3, and LTFTs when I got home were clsoe to what they were before at -2.4/-2.6 idle, -3.9/-7 part. I may try a little more timing next. For giggles, here is a plot of my airflow with the stock intake to compare with the Stage 2 Darintake: It looks like a pretty consistent gain of 8 to 9 g/s, especially in the middle rpms. Not bad I suppose. Anyway, thanks for reading this far! I still have a lot of work to do, but in general the car feels a lot better. Thanks for the help so far ppl! __________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ 2002 Nogaro 6spd S4 with Sport Package click here for my photo albulm -Neuspeed RS10's with 235/35/19 Bridgestone RE050 Pole Positions (summer) -RS4 Replicas with 225/40/18 Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds (winter) -Stasis Motorsports with 700F/800R springs, corner balanced -Intrax front sway bar, Intrax 22mm rear sway bar -EPL stage 3 custom tune -K16/K04 Buehn Engineering hybrid turbos with ceramic coating, port and polishing, and turbine clearancing -AWE Intercoolers, Twin2, DTS -ASP 3" downpipes w/cats -VAST ceramic coated exhaust manifolds -Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch and lightweight flywheel -Stasis high bias 4:1 center differential -Stasis Motorsport 14" 6-pot Alcon BBK -Stasis Tracksport rear brake kit -RS4 motor mounts, RS4 tranny mounts, VAST snub mount -RS4 grill, M3 lip spoiler, Euro tail lights, XM Radio -APR bi-pipe -710N BPVs, Walbro fuel pump, Samco IC hoses -Toyguy shifter -otherwise BONESTOCK... Been there, done that: -CPP front upper control arms (RIP after 20K) -Meyle "OEM" upper control arms (RIP after 17K) -Tracksports with 600F/700R/touring valving -Tracksports with 700F/800R/sport valving -Tracksports with 550F/650R/sport valving Interesting Trivia: -Clutchmasters flywheel weighs 13.95lbs.

10-17-2005, 08:17 PM	#2
Distinct Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,511	Going to speak to you again in the future for advice on APR and Lemmiwinks tweaks! Good stuff, congratulations on the improvements. You have an AIM or MSN ID? __________________

10-17-2005, 08:17 PM	#3
Imolavirus@BuehnEngineering AudiWorld Super User Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 17,943	any reason for stopping the increase in timing to only 1.5%? __________________ -Jacob ^^^CLICK SIG FOR BUEHN ENGINEERING WEBSITE^^^ <big><big>Website Here!!!</big></big> <big>Items For Sale</big>

10-17-2005, 08:18 PM	#4
My2ndS4 Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,321	Wow, lowest cv's I've seen posted. I'd say you definitely have room for more timing. __________________ Thinking about changing your cv boot? Read this first. OEM Pressure Plate part numbers Dead Battery? My FATS Tests How to install usb to serial converter for lemmiwinks on windows xp (UPDATED!) Adjust the latency timer to 1ms if Lemmiwinks still doesn't work Fuel Pressure Regulator Seal Kit There is a second fuse on the back of the radio I am not a mechanic nor an expert in Audi repair/tuning. In no way are my posts meant to replace professional consultation.

10-17-2005, 08:20 PM	#5
BoneStockS4 AudiWorld Senior Member 2002 Audi S4 Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,719	Not really... I'm just beginning to get the hang of tweaking Didn't want to over do it Baby steps, baby steps... Or maybe I just have to grow a pair :-P __________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ 2002 Nogaro 6spd S4 with Sport Package click here for my photo albulm -Neuspeed RS10's with 235/35/19 Bridgestone RE050 Pole Positions (summer) -RS4 Replicas with 225/40/18 Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds (winter) -Stasis Motorsports with 700F/800R springs, corner balanced -Intrax front sway bar, Intrax 22mm rear sway bar -EPL stage 3 custom tune -K16/K04 Buehn Engineering hybrid turbos with ceramic coating, port and polishing, and turbine clearancing -AWE Intercoolers, Twin2, DTS -ASP 3" downpipes w/cats -VAST ceramic coated exhaust manifolds -Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch and lightweight flywheel -Stasis high bias 4:1 center differential -Stasis Motorsport 14" 6-pot Alcon BBK -Stasis Tracksport rear brake kit -RS4 motor mounts, RS4 tranny mounts, VAST snub mount -RS4 grill, M3 lip spoiler, Euro tail lights, XM Radio -APR bi-pipe -710N BPVs, Walbro fuel pump, Samco IC hoses -Toyguy shifter -otherwise BONESTOCK... Been there, done that: -CPP front upper control arms (RIP after 20K) -Meyle "OEM" upper control arms (RIP after 17K) -Tracksports with 600F/700R/touring valving -Tracksports with 700F/800R/sport valving -Tracksports with 550F/650R/sport valving Interesting Trivia: -Clutchmasters flywheel weighs 13.95lbs.

10-17-2005, 08:22 PM	#6
BoneStockS4 AudiWorld Senior Member 2002 Audi S4 Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,719	Well I'm no expert... really just starting this stuff All my knowledge is derived from right here on AW. That is to say I could be completely off on everything Anyway, my AIM is BoneStockS4 :-P __________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ 2002 Nogaro 6spd S4 with Sport Package click here for my photo albulm -Neuspeed RS10's with 235/35/19 Bridgestone RE050 Pole Positions (summer) -RS4 Replicas with 225/40/18 Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds (winter) -Stasis Motorsports with 700F/800R springs, corner balanced -Intrax front sway bar, Intrax 22mm rear sway bar -EPL stage 3 custom tune -K16/K04 Buehn Engineering hybrid turbos with ceramic coating, port and polishing, and turbine clearancing -AWE Intercoolers, Twin2, DTS -ASP 3" downpipes w/cats -VAST ceramic coated exhaust manifolds -Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch and lightweight flywheel -Stasis high bias 4:1 center differential -Stasis Motorsport 14" 6-pot Alcon BBK -Stasis Tracksport rear brake kit -RS4 motor mounts, RS4 tranny mounts, VAST snub mount -RS4 grill, M3 lip spoiler, Euro tail lights, XM Radio -APR bi-pipe -710N BPVs, Walbro fuel pump, Samco IC hoses -Toyguy shifter -otherwise BONESTOCK... Been there, done that: -CPP front upper control arms (RIP after 20K) -Meyle "OEM" upper control arms (RIP after 17K) -Tracksports with 600F/700R/touring valving -Tracksports with 700F/800R/sport valving -Tracksports with 550F/650R/sport valving Interesting Trivia: -Clutchmasters flywheel weighs 13.95lbs.

10-17-2005, 08:23 PM	#7
BoneStockS4 AudiWorld Senior Member 2002 Audi S4 Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,719	Oh yeah, MBC is at about 15psi to keep things happy __________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ 2002 Nogaro 6spd S4 with Sport Package click here for my photo albulm -Neuspeed RS10's with 235/35/19 Bridgestone RE050 Pole Positions (summer) -RS4 Replicas with 225/40/18 Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds (winter) -Stasis Motorsports with 700F/800R springs, corner balanced -Intrax front sway bar, Intrax 22mm rear sway bar -EPL stage 3 custom tune -K16/K04 Buehn Engineering hybrid turbos with ceramic coating, port and polishing, and turbine clearancing -AWE Intercoolers, Twin2, DTS -ASP 3" downpipes w/cats -VAST ceramic coated exhaust manifolds -Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch and lightweight flywheel -Stasis high bias 4:1 center differential -Stasis Motorsport 14" 6-pot Alcon BBK -Stasis Tracksport rear brake kit -RS4 motor mounts, RS4 tranny mounts, VAST snub mount -RS4 grill, M3 lip spoiler, Euro tail lights, XM Radio -APR bi-pipe -710N BPVs, Walbro fuel pump, Samco IC hoses -Toyguy shifter -otherwise BONESTOCK... Been there, done that: -CPP front upper control arms (RIP after 20K) -Meyle "OEM" upper control arms (RIP after 17K) -Tracksports with 600F/700R/touring valving -Tracksports with 700F/800R/sport valving -Tracksports with 550F/650R/sport valving Interesting Trivia: -Clutchmasters flywheel weighs 13.95lbs.

10-17-2005, 08:24 PM	#8
Imolavirus@BuehnEngineering AudiWorld Super User Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 17,943	hehe.........that is a much better mentality on tweaking than some i just thought there may have been some other limiting factors that were causing you to not increase timing. Everything else looks good though...just wait until you get some fueling in there __________________ -Jacob ^^^CLICK SIG FOR BUEHN ENGINEERING WEBSITE^^^ <big><big>Website Here!!!</big></big> <big>Items For Sale</big>

10-17-2005, 08:34 PM	#9
BoneStockS4 AudiWorld Senior Member 2002 Audi S4 Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,719	Yeah, I can't figure out what I want to do as far as fueling goes... On one hand I'm thinking AWE stg3, but on the other hand I feel like that is a waste of the K16's. From taking with Mike2kS4 it seems like these turbos whould be happiest at higher boost levels than what the AWE K04 code will request. So I may still go with an EBC and standard GIAC X at some point... For now I think I'll wait and see what other people come up with! In this case: Follow > Lead :-P __________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ 2002 Nogaro 6spd S4 with Sport Package click here for my photo albulm -Neuspeed RS10's with 235/35/19 Bridgestone RE050 Pole Positions (summer) -RS4 Replicas with 225/40/18 Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds (winter) -Stasis Motorsports with 700F/800R springs, corner balanced -Intrax front sway bar, Intrax 22mm rear sway bar -EPL stage 3 custom tune -K16/K04 Buehn Engineering hybrid turbos with ceramic coating, port and polishing, and turbine clearancing -AWE Intercoolers, Twin2, DTS -ASP 3" downpipes w/cats -VAST ceramic coated exhaust manifolds -Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch and lightweight flywheel -Stasis high bias 4:1 center differential -Stasis Motorsport 14" 6-pot Alcon BBK -Stasis Tracksport rear brake kit -RS4 motor mounts, RS4 tranny mounts, VAST snub mount -RS4 grill, M3 lip spoiler, Euro tail lights, XM Radio -APR bi-pipe -710N BPVs, Walbro fuel pump, Samco IC hoses -Toyguy shifter -otherwise BONESTOCK... Been there, done that: -CPP front upper control arms (RIP after 20K) -Meyle "OEM" upper control arms (RIP after 17K) -Tracksports with 600F/700R/touring valving -Tracksports with 700F/800R/sport valving -Tracksports with 550F/650R/sport valving Interesting Trivia: -Clutchmasters flywheel weighs 13.95lbs.

10-17-2005, 08:38 PM	#10
Imolavirus@BuehnEngineering AudiWorld Super User Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 17,943	yeah, i think it depends a lot on your level of wanting to tweak going homebrew definately takes some time to perfect but it does allow more changes from differing hardware......not to mention a bit cheaper. __________________ -Jacob ^^^CLICK SIG FOR BUEHN ENGINEERING WEBSITE^^^ <big><big>Website Here!!!</big></big> <big>Items For Sale</big>

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