Why I switched from ECS stage 3 BBK (Porsche Big Red) to Stoptech 332 BBK

[O.W. Kenobi]

Yep - that's the replacement: Stoptech 332. Sorry I kept y'all waiting so long, but I wanted to sell my old BBK first before talking about it. Not that it's anything inherently bad, but I just outgrew it. Nevertheless, I was afraid that any negative commentary would lessen the number of buyers. Anyway, onto the details.

Quick background of what I used to have:

I had the ECS stage 3 BBK, which is the front brake kit from a 993TT, plus caliper carriers and rotor hats. The calipers are fixed, four piston calipers. The rotors are two-piece cross-drilled. I bought the kit in spring of 2004 and used it for around 20 days at various tracks.

I bought the kit because, at the time, it retailed for $400 less than the Stoptechs, fit under stock wheels, and reportedly worked just as good as the Stoptechs. Pad options were equal to Stoptech, and parts were available at Porsche dealers in a pinch.

Why I decided to switch:

I was going through rotors extremely quickly, and the price of replacements jumped from $150/side to $190/side. That's essentially it. I couldn't find slotted rotors anywhere, and after around 9 days at the track, the cross-drilled rotors were cracked all over the place. I replaced them once at the lower price, but when it came time to replace them a second time, I decided to cut my losses and try something different. After talking to various people, I discovered that Stoptech rotors were lasting over 20 days at the track. Over time, with as much track time as I do now, it would average out better in the long run to go with Stoptech. I decided to make the jump and ordered a 332 kit (in red).

I decided on Stoptech over other options because of the vast number of people who have them and report good things. I've never met anyone who disliked them, and as mpwolf kept telling me a long time ago, "if you ever need pads at the track, chances are that someone has some for the ST40 calipers." The Alcons were a bit too expensive, and I wanted to stay with a kit that fit under 17" wheels.

Quick rundown of differences/similarities:

Both calipers are fixed, 4 piston. Both rotors are 2 piece. Pad changes on the ECS kit are easier, but only slightly. The bolt-in Stoptech bridge is easy to work with if you use anti-seize. The Stoptech rotor/hat combo is much nicer. The Stoptech hats have cooling vanes, while the ECS hats do not. The Stoptech hat/rotor connections are designed with rotor expansion in mind, while the ECS connections do not account for this (to my knowledge). The Stoptech rotors are 10mm larger. Both kits fit under stock wheels, but the Stoptechs require wheel weight relocation on some wheels. Customer service from both companies is great from my experience and from what I've read. Pedal feel on the Stoptechs feels ever so slightly firmer, and it is a nicer feeling, although I was able to modulate both kits just fine.

The most pleasant surprise was the difference in the price of pads. The Cobalts cost roughly $70 less in Stoptech fitment than in Porsche fitment. Over time, coupled with the extended rotor life, the Stoptechs would work out to be much more cost-effective. Plus, as many people have noticed, the ECS kit has increased in price to now be the same price as the Stoptechs. Without the $400 savings, I have a hard time recommending the ECS kit anymore. That was one of my strongest arguments for ECS previously, and now that benefit is gone. I'm sure the Dollar/Euro thing is hurting them, but it's money all the same to me.

Performance comparison:

Because I liked the pads that I was using (Hawk HPS on the street and Cobalt GT VR Spec on the track), I wanted to stay with them. I also continued with Motul RBF600 fluid. The end result is actually a nice comparison with all variables removed (same pads and fluid, only difference is the kit).

I drove for a few weeks on the street prior to hitting the track. After the initial brake bleed, the Stoptech pedal was rock-solid. Then, after bedding in the HPS pads, the pedal got a little softer. However, the net result is still slightly firmer than the ECS pedal. The pads seem to bite a little better on the Stoptechs, perhaps due to the slots cleaning action. With the ECS rotors, I found that the holes would fill up with brake residue. Maybe it was always filling/escaping, but the bite wasn't always there with the ECS kit. However, both kits are very livable day-to-day on the street.

The true test would come at Road America the past few days. As everyone knows, Road America is an enormous track (over 4 miles long with huge straightaways and some deep braking zones). The schedule was set for 25 minute run sessions, so the brakes would definitely get a workout. Overall, I was very impressed with the Stoptechs. Late into the sessions, they worked just as well as early in the sessions. Sometimes, the ECS kit would get spongy in a 15 minute session and would make me bleed the fluid. The Stoptechs cooled very well. For reference, I am running on stock power (with Milltek catback only) and was carrying around 125 mph into turns 1 and 5. I never recall looking at my speed going into Canada Corner, unfortunately, but it was probably close to 115/120 mph. I was able to consistently modulate the pedal and always had a consistent feel. There were a few times when I thought maybe I had some air in the lines at turn 5, but I later realized that the car was unweighting going over the hill and the tires were simply slipping in one spot. I adjusted my technique and was able to eliminate that feeling. I never bled during the event.

Conclusion:

I know I argued in favor of ECS over Stoptech for a long time now. However, that was based a great deal on the initial price difference. Now that the cost is the same, and now that I know the difference in rotor life, my reasoning has changed. Add in the fact that the Stoptech rotors/hats are designed for better track performance in my opinion, and the Stoptechs are the better option for me.

So, that's it. Did anyone guess Stoptechs? I got a lot of people guessing Alcons.

[Kimbo Slice]

[WideSuppie]

[O.W. Kenobi]

as you'd likely not really heat them up enough for it to matter, unless you were driving very aggressively. Also, I can only compare the Stoptech 332 to the ECS stage 3 kit. Other Brembo kits may work differently, and slotted rotors may be available for them. Despite my best efforts, I could not easily locate slotted rotors for the ECS kit.

But for street and track use, I am now recommending the Stoptech 332 over the ECS stage 3 kit.

[O.W. Kenobi]

[Mike2kS4]

So it's all about cost-effectiveness? If the cost were the same you'd stay with the Big reds?

FWIW, I toiled over the same decision.

[PSmalls::DoggieStyle]

My decision on BBK came down to the ECS stage 3 kit and the Stoptech. After reading this, I'm glad I went with Stoptech. The only reason I even considered ECS stage 3 was because of YOU. ;-)

As for the Stoptechs' performance on the track, I found my pedal to go soft near the end of the last session of the day at my August DE. The day consisted of 4 sessions, 100 minutes total, with my first two sessions early in the day and my last two sessions only seperated by 20 minutes. Maybe the lack of cool down between the last 2 sessions is responsible for this. Just an FYI, was running Valvoline fluid.

[lookaught::02_Avant!]

seriously if you dont change your pads really often then the damn bolts can just be such a pain to get out, not to mention the bridge itself.

and also, if you live where there are salted roads in the winter, the stoptech hats tend to disintegrate and need to be replaced when you replace rotors (total cost to replace 2 rotors with new slotted and zinc coated = just under $1000). this is goddamn ridiculous. rotors and hats cannot possibly cost close to $1000 to produce, its a total ripoff.

however, stoptech does perform well on the track and have absolutely FANTASTIC customer service. I wont be buying them again b/c i hate the bridge system and think that overall the quality of materials is slightly cheaper than brembo or alcon stuff, but they are nice brakes nonetheless.

[vwaudidriver]

[WideSuppie]