Lower timing correction with higher boost, can you believe it? Believe it. Testing results inside.

Pop3 · 09-16-2005, 12:56 AM

In the pic first three lowboost and timing pulled. last two 1.6bar to (EDIT)1.5bar 2deg timing added. Check below for the 1.75bar run witch was right after the low boost run.
************************************************** *****

I was logging last night and tried to get the lowest TC from my engine that I possibly could. Lowered the ch09 4,75 degrees lowered the boost to 1.25bar tapering to 1bar. Cold night around 45F.

incase pics wont show...
Result FIRST RUN:
blocks 020 and then time and rpms

3 6 3 0 399,03 3440
6,8 6 5,3 6 399,95 4040
6 8,3 4,5 5,3 400,89 4640
3,8 5,3 5,3 2,3 401,88 5240
3 4,5 4,5 1,5 402,94 5840
3 4,5 4,5 1,5 404,06 6360
2,3 3,8 3,8 0,8 405,19 6600

2ND RUN:
3 3 1,5 1,5 448,02 3400
9,8 9,8 6 4,5 448,93 3840
9 9,8 6 3,8 449,86 4440
9 9,8 5,3 3,8 450,83 5040
8,3 8,3 5,3 3 451,87 5600
8,3 8,3 5,3 3 452,96 6120
7,5 7,5 4,5 2,3 454,09 6560

3RD RUN:
3 3 1,5 1,5 448,02 3400
9,8 9,8 6 4,5 448,93 3840
9 9,8 6 3,8 449,86 4440
9 9,8 5,3 3,8 450,83 5040
8,3 8,3 5,3 3 451,87 5600
8,3 8,3 5,3 3 452,96 6120
7,5 7,5 4,5 2,3 454,09 6560

So basically my car doesn't like low boost! CFs around 10-7!

I stopped and dialed MBC for high boost (ended up to 1.75bar, huh and later 1.6bar)with a taper to EDIT 1.5bar. I also added timing 2deg from stock (I know too brave but I've experimented these things before and nothing cracy timing/TC has happened)

FIRST RUN 1.75bar:
block 003:
3800 186,53 100 5,3 30,77 6,8 6,8 5,3 6
4240 217,97 100 2,3 31,39 6 6,8 4,5 6
4720 232,64 100 3 32,05 6 6,8 4,5 6
5200 246,92 100 8,3 32,73 3,8 6,8 5,3 5,3
5680 255,78 100 9,8 33,45 3 6,8 4,5 5,3
6080 260,72 100 10,5 34,19 6 6,8 4,5 5,3
6480 261,28 100 14,3 34,94 6 6 4,5 4,5
6840 264,00 100 15 35,7 1,5 1,5 1,5 1,5

timing correction above under 7!

these with 1.6bar:
1ST:
3600 132,42 100 27,8 252,83 9,8 9,8 6 4,5
4000 207,14 100 8,3 253,44 6 6 4,5 5,3
4520 224,33 100 6,8 254,07 6 6 4,5 5,3
5000 245,72 100 8,3 254,75 3,8 5,3 5,3 2,3
5520 252,97 100 9,8 255,45 3 6,8 4,5 1,5
5960 259,11 100 12 256,19 6 6,8 7,5 1,5
6400 261,28 100 18,8 256,94 6 6,8 7,5 1,5
6760 256,86 100 19,5 257,69 8,3 8,3 7,5 1,5

2ND RUN:
2960 69,22 100 28,5 513,12 0 0 2,3 0
3200 115,53 100 27 513,72 9,8 9,8 6 4,5
3600 189,17 100 1,5 514,32 6,8 6,8 5,3 6
4080 211,39 100 6 514,94 6,8 6,8 5,3 6
4560 219,56 100 6 515,58 6 6 5,3 5,3
5080 245,22 100 6,8 516,26 6,8 5,3 5,3 5,3
5560 260,72 100 9,8 516,97 6,8 5,3 5,3 5,3
6000 265,06 100 12,8 517,7 6,8 8,3 8,3 5,3
6440 271,56 100 15,8 518,46 6 8,3 8,3 4,5
6800 270,64 100 15,8 519,21 6 8,3 8,3 4,5

My guess is mechanical noise cuts timing on low boost. NOw what do YOU think?

lemieux@curbside · 09-16-2005, 05:20 AM

i also run +2.25 timing , but saw some high cf's ..even 14 in the beg of a run , they go down around 8-9 once i get moving (this is @ 6000 + rpm , mbc set to 22psi tapering down to 20-21 psi, around 73*F ot and 94 oct gas).

Pop3 · 09-16-2005, 05:29 AM

lemieux@curbside · 09-16-2005, 05:36 AM

you should log and graf .. timing/ maf/ rpm vag chanel ..

Pop3 · 09-16-2005, 05:39 AM

Mark P · 09-16-2005, 06:28 AM

Pop3 · 09-16-2005, 07:31 AM

PSmalls::DoggieStyle · 09-16-2005, 10:00 AM

I'll just take your word for it. It seems odd, that's for sure.

Pop3 · 09-16-2005, 10:10 AM

Woland · 09-16-2005, 11:54 AM

timing correction due to knock activity is not the same for every point of the rpm/load map. The fact that you are flowing more air (higher boost) reads more maf g/s which changes the load which changes the knock tolerance.

09-16-2005, 12:56 AM	#1
Pop3 Junior Member Account #: 57166 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,378	Lower timing correction with higher boost, can you believe it? Believe it. Testing results inside. In the pic first three lowboost and timing pulled. last two 1.6bar to (EDIT)1.5bar 2deg timing added. Check below for the 1.75bar run witch was right after the low boost run. ************************************************ *** I was logging last night and tried to get the lowest TC from my engine that I possibly could. Lowered the ch09 4,75 degrees lowered the boost to 1.25bar tapering to 1bar. Cold night around 45F. incase pics wont show... Result FIRST RUN: blocks 020 and then time and rpms 3 6 3 0 399,03 3440 6,8 6 5,3 6 399,95 4040 6 8,3 4,5 5,3 400,89 4640 3,8 5,3 5,3 2,3 401,88 5240 3 4,5 4,5 1,5 402,94 5840 3 4,5 4,5 1,5 404,06 6360 2,3 3,8 3,8 0,8 405,19 6600 2ND RUN: 3 3 1,5 1,5 448,02 3400 9,8 9,8 6 4,5 448,93 3840 9 9,8 6 3,8 449,86 4440 9 9,8 5,3 3,8 450,83 5040 8,3 8,3 5,3 3 451,87 5600 8,3 8,3 5,3 3 452,96 6120 7,5 7,5 4,5 2,3 454,09 6560 3RD RUN: 3 3 1,5 1,5 448,02 3400 9,8 9,8 6 4,5 448,93 3840 9 9,8 6 3,8 449,86 4440 9 9,8 5,3 3,8 450,83 5040 8,3 8,3 5,3 3 451,87 5600 8,3 8,3 5,3 3 452,96 6120 7,5 7,5 4,5 2,3 454,09 6560 So basically my car doesn't like low boost! CFs around 10-7! I stopped and dialed MBC for high boost (ended up to 1.75bar, huh and later 1.6bar)with a taper to EDIT 1.5bar. I also added timing 2deg from stock (I know too brave but I've experimented these things before and nothing cracy timing/TC has happened) FIRST RUN 1.75bar: block 003: 3800 186,53 100 5,3 30,77 6,8 6,8 5,3 6 4240 217,97 100 2,3 31,39 6 6,8 4,5 6 4720 232,64 100 3 32,05 6 6,8 4,5 6 5200 246,92 100 8,3 32,73 3,8 6,8 5,3 5,3 5680 255,78 100 9,8 33,45 3 6,8 4,5 5,3 6080 260,72 100 10,5 34,19 6 6,8 4,5 5,3 6480 261,28 100 14,3 34,94 6 6 4,5 4,5 6840 264,00 100 15 35,7 1,5 1,5 1,5 1,5 timing correction above under 7! these with 1.6bar: 1ST: 3600 132,42 100 27,8 252,83 9,8 9,8 6 4,5 4000 207,14 100 8,3 253,44 6 6 4,5 5,3 4520 224,33 100 6,8 254,07 6 6 4,5 5,3 5000 245,72 100 8,3 254,75 3,8 5,3 5,3 2,3 5520 252,97 100 9,8 255,45 3 6,8 4,5 1,5 5960 259,11 100 12 256,19 6 6,8 7,5 1,5 6400 261,28 100 18,8 256,94 6 6,8 7,5 1,5 6760 256,86 100 19,5 257,69 8,3 8,3 7,5 1,5 2ND RUN: 2960 69,22 100 28,5 513,12 0 0 2,3 0 3200 115,53 100 27 513,72 9,8 9,8 6 4,5 3600 189,17 100 1,5 514,32 6,8 6,8 5,3 6 4080 211,39 100 6 514,94 6,8 6,8 5,3 6 4560 219,56 100 6 515,58 6 6 5,3 5,3 5080 245,22 100 6,8 516,26 6,8 5,3 5,3 5,3 5560 260,72 100 9,8 516,97 6,8 5,3 5,3 5,3 6000 265,06 100 12,8 517,7 6,8 8,3 8,3 5,3 6440 271,56 100 15,8 518,46 6 8,3 8,3 4,5 6800 270,64 100 15,8 519,21 6 8,3 8,3 4,5 My guess is mechanical noise cuts timing on low boost. NOw what do YOU think? __________________ Next mods: chipset with overboost option and stg3 rims (folk+nittos) and interior ledlights

09-16-2005, 05:20 AM	#2
lemieux@curbside AudiWorld Super User Account #: 47312 Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 17,783	*45F hehe that sais a lot .. plus all the high speed runs ;))** i also run +2.25 timing , but saw some high cf's ..even 14 in the beg of a run , they go down around 8-9 once i get moving (this is @ 6000 + rpm , mbc set to 22psi tapering down to 20-21 psi, around 73F ot and 94 oct gas). __________________ *********************************************** ************************************* "it's a B5 S4 ,it may break down, but its far enough ahead, by the time its fixed, you still haven't caught up." -best line i've heard ;) AUDI B5 S4 detail info (pdf file) that everyone should read and have saved on his computer AUDI B5 RS4 study guide detail info (pdf file) FATS database VAG-COM LOCATOR ASP Hands down the "BESTEST" tuner out there.

09-16-2005, 05:29 AM	#3
Pop3 Junior Member Account #: 57166 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,378	Highest correction was on low boost + low base timing! temps were the same on all runs and 93oct __________________ Next mods: chipset with overboost option and stg3 rims (folk+nittos) and interior ledlights

09-16-2005, 05:36 AM	#4
lemieux@curbside AudiWorld Super User Account #: 47312 Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 17,783	what's the higest boost level you saw @6000+ rpm ? you should log and graf .. timing/ maf/ rpm vag chanel .. __________________ ************************************************ ************************************* "it's a B5 S4 ,it may break down, but its far enough ahead, by the time its fixed, you still haven't caught up." -best line i've heard ;) AUDI B5 S4 detail info (pdf file) that everyone should read and have saved on his computer AUDI B5 RS4 study guide detail info (pdf file) FATS database VAG-COM LOCATOR ASP Hands down the "BESTEST" tuner out there.

09-16-2005, 05:39 AM	#5
Pop3 Junior Member Account #: 57166 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,378	cant give an accurate answer (TCD) but around 1.5bar? __________________ Next mods: chipset with overboost option and stg3 rims (folk+nittos) and interior ledlights

09-16-2005, 06:28 AM	#6
Mark P AudiWorld Expert Account #: 139 Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 27,942	A graph is worth a thousand numbers ;-) __________________ Mark P Current: '04 Porsche 911 Turbo, Speed Yellow - website - 26k miles '02 Audi S4 Avant, Imola Yellow, APR Stg3 - website - 191k miles '01.5 VW Golf 4dr 1.8T, Satin Silver, GT28R - website - 203k miles '09 VW Tiguan 2.0T, Candy White - Hers Previous: '00 Audi A4 1.8T, Silver - Quattrobonium website

09-16-2005, 07:31 AM	#7
Pop3 Junior Member Account #: 57166 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,378	graph. EDIT, that highest line should be titled cyl2 low boost. __________________ Next mods: chipset with overboost option and stg3 rims (folk+nittos) and interior ledlights

09-16-2005, 10:00 AM	#8
PSmalls::DoggieStyle Elder Member Account #: 69223 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 30,285	Graphs would make this MUCH easier to read. Without them, not even going to try and read that data. I'll just take your word for it. It seems odd, that's for sure.

09-16-2005, 10:10 AM	#9
Pop3 Junior Member Account #: 57166 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,378	It was just an strange observation. Going to try toluene soon to see if that helps. __________________ Next mods: chipset with overboost option and stg3 rims (folk+nittos) and interior ledlights

09-16-2005, 11:54 AM	#10
Woland Member Account #: 39771 Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,957	terve hullu! Sir, it has to do with your MAF values timing correction due to knock activity is not the same for every point of the rpm/load map. The fact that you are flowing more air (higher boost) reads more maf g/s which changes the load which changes the knock tolerance. __________________

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