Here's some comparison data, though it speaks more to the benefit of W/I

Flyboy · 09-10-2005, 07:26 AM

than anything else. I did a bunch of pulls in just under an hour. I have the AWE IC's and APR Stg3, with water injection. That's the picture of the Dyno IAT over time. There were a couple minutes between each pull for the IC' to recover some.

The other picture is my stock dyno session. Stock ECU and stock IC's. W/I was running on the first and third pull, I disconnected it on the second to see what affect there was. I didn't experience losses of HP and big rises in IAT. Of course I was stock. The affect of W/I doesn't seem as pronounced when the IAT and water temperature aren't too far apart. As the IC's get hotter the W/I starts to make a bigger contribution to cooling the IAT.

Just thought I'd add this for comparison purposes, not saying anything about the work you've done.

Stock HP & IAT

BLK01S4::HB B!SH · 09-10-2005, 07:32 AM

if the car is cold and you are spraying water into the engine it stumbles whereas if its really hot outside been sitting in traffic and I hit it I can feel it kick in at 17psi (Where I have it set at) makes a big difference when hot hurts performance when cold.

PSmalls::DoggieStyle · 09-10-2005, 07:32 AM

BLK01S4::HB B!SH · 09-10-2005, 07:33 AM

a tad hot?

Flyboy · 09-10-2005, 07:47 AM

Flyboy · 09-10-2005, 09:38 AM

stock, so that question will remain unanswered.

Ochlockonee · 09-10-2005, 04:40 PM

Sorry for the small pic...picposter resized it a little to small. Y axis is cc/min.
Anyway, it just blew me away when I found out how the race pump can get outflowed by a single .7mm at 110 psi. You can reduce that to 90 psi if you are pushing the water into 20 psi of boost.

Flyboy · 09-10-2005, 07:27 PM

for the spray pattern and droplet size to be correct. Pressure differential higher than that isn't benefitting you much. If you have the larger accumulator in your setup it adds about 30cc/min to the pumps flow rate. Even if the pump were just at 60 psi that would be enough pressure for a car running 30 psi of boost.

In my opinion people who've gone to a pair of 0.7mm nozzles are flowing way too much water. I've got a 0.4mm and 0.5mm nozzle installed right now, which probably puts more water out than is necessary also. A little H2O goes a long way, especially if you have a decent IC setup.

Milpitas2.7T · 09-10-2005, 08:19 PM

Flyboy · 09-11-2005, 05:54 AM

Ten percent of max fuel flow should be about 276cc/min, and a pair of 0.4mm nozzles flow 250cc/min. without fighting any boost. I don't think in my case I want to go any smaller since I also have the 2D system, so the water is being regulated with IDC as well. Supposedly a well tuned setup should work with only 3% water/fuel, but I think that is using a system that monitors fuel more accurately.

09-10-2005, 07:26 AM	#1
Flyboy AudiWorld Super User Account #: 4736 Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,521	Here's some comparison data, though it speaks more to the benefit of W/I than anything else. I did a bunch of pulls in just under an hour. I have the AWE IC's and APR Stg3, with water injection. That's the picture of the Dyno IAT over time. There were a couple minutes between each pull for the IC' to recover some. The other picture is my stock dyno session. Stock ECU and stock IC's. W/I was running on the first and third pull, I disconnected it on the second to see what affect there was. I didn't experience losses of HP and big rises in IAT. Of course I was stock. The affect of W/I doesn't seem as pronounced when the IAT and water temperature aren't too far apart. As the IC's get hotter the W/I starts to make a bigger contribution to cooling the IAT. Just thought I'd add this for comparison purposes, not saying anything about the work you've done. Stock HP & IAT

09-10-2005, 07:32 AM	#2
BLK01S4::HB B!SH AudiWorld Super User Account #: 52597 Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,924	Yes I have noticed that as well, I also noticed if the car is cold and you are spraying water into the engine it stumbles whereas if its really hot outside been sitting in traffic and I hit it I can feel it kick in at 17psi (Where I have it set at) makes a big difference when hot hurts performance when cold. __________________ Stage III Tip : ??? FATS (Race Gas) 3.43 Average Pump gas --------------- Fastest Tiptronic! ET: 12.259@118.25mph :) "Turbos are usually the cheapest/easiest way to add power - Posted by: Corrado79 on 2008-05-21 13:22:49 "Amazing that he could maintain a wedgie and talk out of his ass at the same time. That's one skill he CAN lay claim to. - Skydive@W?? 2007-12-18" --- "good I just added you to my " bitch " VIP list ." -Professional customer service - SIMPPLY@WMS 2007-12-17 --- "i tried the propane file on butane and it blew my ing grill up." - mjtaylor::pipedream 2007-08-23 14:21:46 --- "It takes a problem which we don't have and doesn't even solve it" - Mirror\|rorriM on 2006-09-26 --- "but yeah you want open loop when you go wot ;-)" - PiggieSmalls on 2006-11-10 --- $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = !@$#!#!!@&%! ----

09-10-2005, 07:32 AM	#3
PSmalls::DoggieStyle Elder Member Account #: 69223 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 30,258	I assume you meant to reply to the SMIC post? ;p

09-10-2005, 07:33 AM	#4
BLK01S4::HB B!SH AudiWorld Super User Account #: 52597 Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,924	Based on that dyno graph it seems the car likes to run a tad hot? __________________ Stage III Tip : ??? FATS (Race Gas) 3.43 Average Pump gas --------------- Fastest Tiptronic! ET: 12.259@118.25mph :) "Turbos are usually the cheapest/easiest way to add power - Posted by: Corrado79 on 2008-05-21 13:22:49 "Amazing that he could maintain a wedgie and talk out of his ass at the same time. That's one skill he CAN lay claim to. - Skydive@W?? 2007-12-18" --- "good I just added you to my " bitch " VIP list ." -Professional customer service - SIMPPLY@WMS 2007-12-17 --- "i tried the propane file on butane and it blew my ing grill up." - mjtaylor::pipedream 2007-08-23 14:21:46 --- "It takes a problem which we don't have and doesn't even solve it" - Mirror\|rorriM on 2006-09-26 --- "but yeah you want open loop when you go wot ;-)" - PiggieSmalls on 2006-11-10 --- $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = !@$#!#!!@&%! ----

09-10-2005, 07:47 AM	#5
Flyboy AudiWorld Super User Account #: 4736 Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,521	Yeah, screwed up and don't know how to move a post.

09-10-2005, 09:38 AM	#6
Flyboy AudiWorld Super User Account #: 4736 Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,521	Tough to draw any conclusions on just three pulls. The car's no longer stock, so that question will remain unanswered.

09-10-2005, 04:40 PM	#7
Ochlockonee Member Account #: 72863 Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,953	Have you seen this? Sorry for the small pic...picposter resized it a little to small. Y axis is cc/min. Anyway, it just blew me away when I found out how the race pump can get outflowed by a single .7mm at 110 psi. You can reduce that to 90 psi if you are pushing the water into 20 psi of boost. __________________ "No, a flux capacitor is not compatible with a ham sandwich."

09-10-2005, 07:27 PM	#8
Flyboy AudiWorld Super User Account #: 4736 Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,521	I've seen similar charts. Apparently you need 2 bar of pressure differential for the spray pattern and droplet size to be correct. Pressure differential higher than that isn't benefitting you much. If you have the larger accumulator in your setup it adds about 30cc/min to the pumps flow rate. Even if the pump were just at 60 psi that would be enough pressure for a car running 30 psi of boost. In my opinion people who've gone to a pair of 0.7mm nozzles are flowing way too much water. I've got a 0.4mm and 0.5mm nozzle installed right now, which probably puts more water out than is necessary also. A little H2O goes a long way, especially if you have a decent IC setup.

09-10-2005, 08:19 PM	#9
Milpitas2.7T AudiWorld Expert Account #: 6383 Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 25,962	With a 100psi pump and an accumalator even .4mm seemed to large. __________________

09-11-2005, 05:54 AM	#10
Flyboy AudiWorld Super User Account #: 4736 Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,521	I have RS4 injectors, and I'm aiming for just around 10% water/fuel. Ten percent of max fuel flow should be about 276cc/min, and a pair of 0.4mm nozzles flow 250cc/min. without fighting any boost. I don't think in my case I want to go any smaller since I also have the 2D system, so the water is being regulated with IDC as well. Supposedly a well tuned setup should work with only 3% water/fuel, but I think that is using a system that monitors fuel more accurately.

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