Tomasz@Startup

Frankly I would not have considered this upgrade if it were not for the fact that I became a Brembo dealer. Consistent with the StartupRacing philosophy - we run what we sell, I traded my 332 StopTech front BBK setup for a 332 Brembo one. Here is the comparison:

<b>Unpacking:</b>
<img src="http://www.startupracing.com/images/Brakes/Brembo/1.jpg">

Brembos come in two boxes like StopTechs, but their packaging is more flashy. No doubt that all components are well protected. Nice, but moving on to things that matter.

NO WASHING. StopTech wants you to wash their rotors. Brembo does not require this. I always blamed myself for not washing them well enough. Mental thing for sure, but it makes me feel better.

<b>Caliper:</b>
<img src="http://www.startupracing.com/images/Brakes/Brembo/2.jpg">

Caliper comes with the pads pre-loaded. Brembo pads are made by Ferodo. They are better than the StopTech standard issue Axxiss pads. Axxiss pads are prone to overheating causing rotor vibration. Many people on AudiWorld will tell you about their bad experiences with these pads; our cars are just too heavy and too front brake biased for them.

<b>Rotors:</b>
<img src="http://www.startupracing.com/images/Brakes/Brembo/3.jpg">

OK, more good news here. Look at the McLaren rotor hardware. Brembo uses a bushing along with McLaren hardware for its fully floating disks. Without the McLaren piece, the bushings are loose, as the bolts bottom out before touching the disk. The McLaren piece isn't required, as the Brembo race discs don't use them. The purpose of it is to allow the disk to float and not rattle. The McLaren hardware was developed by Brembo for the McLaren F1 road car. The McLaren piece has a specific spring rate that allows the disc to move relative to the hat but keep it from being excessively noisy. Too much spring tension won't allow the disk to properly float, too little and it doesn't eliminate the noise. This is why Audi chose the same technology for the RS4 floating rotors.

<img src="http://www.startupracing.com/images/Brakes/Brembo/4.jpg">

StopTechs use a Belleville Inconel washer STaSIS uses two. The washers were originally just designed to be a high-heat lock washer. They have a very high spring rate so once they are torqued down they don't allow the disk to move. When a disk isn't allowed to expand the hat may crack around the bolt hole area. The Brembo hardware is more expensive because it was specifically designed for that application. Brembo solution is used by the few OEMs running two piece rotors, I am not aware of the Belleville Inconel washer to be acceptable when durability is of importance.

I also read a rumor (RUMOR) that StopTech is switching to McLaren type of hardware. If anyone connected can comment - please do.

<b>Installation:</b>
<img src="http://www.startupracing.com/images/Brakes/Brembo/5.jpg">

Brembo supplied bracket, the clean black piece in the picture mounts with the two bolts toward the outside - unlike StopTech. This helps greatly when you need to apply 148lbs of torque to them! I can tell you I appreciated that! I have also heard that this mounting position will lessen the flex on the mounting bracket, I am not sure if I buy it. On another hand, this mounting position along with the caliper keeps stock Avus wheels from fitting. One will need a 5mm spacer to use stock 17" Avus wheels. Besides these bolts, the rest of the install is straightforward.

I forgot to mention. StopTechs install manual although not pretty - just some pages printed on a laser printer is specific to the Audi. It contains torque specs, etc. Brembos, although pretty bound booklet, is non car specific and it refers to Bentley for torque specs, etc. I recommend that you reference the StopTech one.

<img src="http://www.startupracing.com/images/Brakes/Brembo/6.jpg">

Bleeding is little easier with these. Seems that Brembo uses larger valves, that I am not afraid of over tightening. Though a torque wrench should be used anyway here. I like the silver...

<img src="http://www.startupracing.com/images/Brakes/Brembo/7.jpg">

<b>Driving impressions:</b>
OK, so I am sure many here are waiting for my results. I have driven over 100 miles on Brembos now and feel that I can comment. I have also driven Brembos and Alcons back to back.
Pedal feel was similar if not identical between Alcons and Brembos. Alcons had more pedal travel. Modulation was excellent with both, Alcons and Brembos. StopTechs have least of pedal travel, but their modulation is worse as they feel grabbier. Good pedal modulation is not something that is achieved easily, and now I am yearning for rear Brembos as well. I did not compare stopping distances as I can not understand how this is not a factor of the tire much more than the brake. All of these kits can easily lock the wheel. My next step is to test Brembos at the track.

<b>Feature comparison:</b>
<img src="http://www.startupracing.com/images/Brakes/Brembo/8.jpg">

<b>I know that this post will cause a good deal of a discussion. I welcome it, as we all learn from these.</b>

Many also asked if the Brembo 332mm kit will fit under the B5 S4 Avus 17" wheels. In order to fit - the wheel will require a 5mm spacer. (Bummer - I know.) Though there are many 17" wheels where these will work. I am running 17" wheels myself.

bhvrdr

Also what are your thoughts on the 2-piece v. monobloc construction? Is it that much of a benefit or not needed? cheers! Mike

crew219

Also, those rotor rings appear to be plated . . . whereas stoptech charges an extra $100 for plating and I don't think the Stasis kits are plated either.

Any info on how much rotor ring replacements cost and caliper / wheel clearance comparisons between the brands?

Dave

Tomasz@Startup

Brembo was 0.1 lbs less than the StopTech. This could very well be a scale error, so I would consider them equal. I did not weigh the caliper - dumb mistake.

Two piece rotor should be lighter, but it also adds considerably to the cost. For street use I do not think it is necessary though. For extensive track use... I do not know why - but it seems the standard. So I would go with it for track.

Tomasz@Startup

I assume Brembo will be more as their rotors are more expensive to manufacture. As you may have seen, lack of plating causes failures with the other rotors.

bhvrdr

for 2-piece v. monobloc I was meaning the calipers. I have 2-piece calipers and the alcons are monobloc and I always wondered if the difference would be felt. cheers! Mike

'Nova more S4

But that's just me. You can buy a whole lotta pads for that difference.

One additional point I'm not sure you covered is support after the sale. I have no experience with the others, but ST customer service and tech support is outstanding. I would hope you'd get a similar treatment with the others.

I'm interested to see how they fair at the track. If possible could you run the same pad at the same track as previously run with ST?

Andrew C.

nevermind, that's the 6 piston . . .

Tomasz@Startup

If I lived in a state where rust is an issue, it would be a no brainer for me - Brembo. Pictures on StopTechs own web site scare me. I have had my share of issues with STs, will see how the Brembos will fare after few track events though.

O.W. Kenobi

There are no studs! The old ECS stage 3 carriers were like these, and they later changed to studs because people (like me) were cross-threading the mounting bolts and ruining the carriers. The hard part of installing the calipers on studless carriers is that you have to balance the calipers with one hand, and hope to thread the bolts properly with the other. Sounds like a minor problem, but if you're at all in a hurry (think about paddock repairs between sessons) or even if you think it's threaded properly and then crank down on it with a wrench, you're screwed.

I know that this is a problem because it happened to me the week before a DE when I had the old carriers. ECS was kind enough to overnight the newer carriers (with studs), but if that had happened the night before an event or at the event itself, I would have been screwed.