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let the chip debate begin.....dyno inside... many thanks to AWE, specially Todd

Posted by: xccess on 2003-03-26 10:49:43
Account #: 14509

I posted a while a go about my "butt dyno" and variation run with different cars. Some had ask me for number to back it up, here you have it.

First I must mention, Todd at AWE-Tuning had spend alot of time to run the dyno, many thanks go to him, while I don't work for AWE, but I think they are one of the best tunner around if you are looking to mod your car in the NE area. They will answer any questions you have or do all they can to help you out, too bad we did not have the dyno with the race gas since the race gas went bad on us, but here is the dyno base on 2001 M box with 93 octane
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Stock

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APR

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ABT

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MTM

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GIAC-X

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X vs. ABT

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ABT vs. MTM

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ABT vs. APR

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APR vs. stock

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1166750.phtml

Thread:

let the chip debate begin.....dyno inside... many thanks to AWE, specially Todd - xccess 2003-03-26 10:49:43 (19591 views)

Re: let the chip debate begin.....dyno inside... many thanks to AWE, specially Todd - alicka 2005-11-06 12:37:47 (335 views)

what about APR v5.0? didn't that have alot of kinks worked out? - wanna buy an s4 2003-12-15 13:40:07 (1123 views)

Follow-up question about different Chips........ - forcedS4 2003-07-22 08:57:53 (1397 views)

Re: let the chip debate begin.....dyno inside... many thanks to AWE, specially Todd - forcedS4 2003-07-22 08:53:48 (1085 views)

....man I'm glad I got that chip.....................(Billy Madison) - FRS4 2003-03-26 15:13:07 (1877 views)

With my M-box this shows me why I don't want APR v3.3. ABT looks smooth & X has da powa! - shaneS4 2003-03-26 14:52:17 (1329 views)

Unfortunately that is a misrepresentation to get you to spend big bucks, it's AMS not ABT software - Milpitas2.7T 2003-03-26 15:18:52 (1642 views)

Yes, but it's still the best software on the market ;) - Argeiphontes 2003-03-26 18:32:54 (1134 views)

You would have to quantify that statement. - Milpitas2.7T 2003-03-26 19:40:19 (1090 views)

Tory, that's not really fair. I'm not disagreeing with you, but by that logic, MTM isn't MTM - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 16:44:48 (1269 views)

Actually no, here;'s why.. - Milpitas2.7T 2003-03-26 19:37:42 (1293 views)

Jo Hoppen is nothing more than an MTM distributor... - NonBenz OZ SL GB 2003-03-26 19:40:26 (1229 views)

Not true...MTM has sent engineers here. - RichP 2003-03-27 06:30:58 (1031 views)

True, but that still doesn't change the fact that Hoppen is an MTM reseller. - NonBenz OZ SL GB 2003-03-27 06:58:42 (776 views)

right, like I said below, Strat sold MTM, which was the same MTM chip that anyone had... - Mark P 2003-03-27 09:28:52 (1033 views)

I'm pretty sure Strat was getting their MTM stuff from Hoppen and - RichP 2003-03-28 06:07:01 (754 views)

My understanding as well - Remember when Strat sold MTM? That had nothing to do with Hoppen, which - Mark P 2003-03-27 06:18:43 (692 views)

That was my understanding as well. - Milpitas2.7T 2003-03-26 22:34:16 (694 views)

Ahhhh, interesting. - shaneS4 2003-03-26 15:38:16 (777 views)

Not sure what I'm suppose to read into this - Milpitas2.7T 2003-03-26 19:38:34 (640 views)

Shortshifter circlip? - shaneS4 2003-03-26 19:51:55 (834 views)

OH HAHAHAHAHA!! - Milpitas2.7T 2003-03-26 20:09:37 (646 views)

wow! How can I get such an accurate butt dyno:P - Chaka 2003-03-26 14:38:54 (640 views)

AWEsome comparison! Thanks! - S4MadManTuningTroLL 2003-03-26 14:09:26 (706 views)

Thank you Xcess. Comparaison between chips is what I needed in fact. Numbers are trivial... - Chuck-S4 2003-03-26 14:05:18 (909 views)

What about GIAC 1.0 bar???? where is that??? - veryfastS4@aol.com 2003-03-26 13:55:02 (963 views)

NICE JOB Xcess!!! That will be a reference in the future! - Hell's-S4 2003-03-26 13:47:04 (558 views)

Thanks ,, I just want to do it to back up my butt dyno - xccess 2003-03-26 13:54:54 (628 views)

How can ABT make less torque, but 30 HP more at 500 rpm less than APR? Confusing. - PhoenixS4 2003-03-26 13:44:23 (991 views)

APR's tuning on the M-box is either tuned very conservative or they have something wrong with the - The R 2003-03-26 17:05:01 (3933 views)

P.S. Confirms that short shifting is the way to go. - PhoenixS4 2003-03-26 13:51:14 (752 views)

Not if the final output torque with tranny gearing is still higher. (Which it probably is.) - BryanGT 2003-03-26 16:57:31 (582 views)

It matters where in the rev range you make that torque. HP = (torque x RPM)/5252. - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 13:51:07 (594 views)

Well the peak torque was at the same rpm, but I guess the APR tq curve falls off faster. - PhoenixS4 2003-03-26 13:53:12 (716 views)

Many Thanks. Great Work. I Love my X Chip!!!!!!! - S4SPEED-VA 2003-03-26 13:11:32 (931 views)

do they still have the data - can they plot APR vs MTM - that looks interesting - Mark P 2003-03-26 13:01:06 (709 views)

I can ask Todd, or Todd can you do it and post it here ? - xccess 2003-03-26 13:02:56 (636 views)

Results look very similar to our dyno tests. - tuan@grdperformance.com 2003-03-26 12:54:34 (748 views)

Thanks for doing this, now compare to mine that i did sometime ago - Milpitas2.7T 2003-03-26 12:49:59 (844 views)

yeap it look right to me :) and yes that a 93 octane - xccess 2003-03-26 12:53:45 (613 views)

>CLEEK< Track Thread... - bageldog 2003-03-26 12:49:35 (610 views)

So the dyno proves our tests were right.. APR mbox is slow :/ - LightWeight 2003-03-26 12:48:10 (882 views)

I will owned you with my APR - xccess 2003-03-26 12:55:24 (917 views)

hahaha.. I found out what the problem is with my car.. :) - LightWeight 2003-03-26 13:11:17 (852 views)

Now listen junior, don't get so happy about it..... - xccess 2003-03-26 13:15:13 (701 views)

It's AARP, and I don't see how that's going to do you any good unless you like eating dinner at 4:30 - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 12:57:13 (550 views)

Sir, I fixed it - xccess 2003-03-26 13:03:34 (524 views)

LOL. =) Also, thanks for the charts. - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 13:05:56 (651 views)

NP, any time - xccess 2003-03-26 13:06:29 (577 views)

APR v3.3? I've seen a 2000 A-box v3.3 dyno 23hp/27lb-ft more than a 2001.5 M-box v3.2 - Third ROC 2003-03-26 12:40:30 (785 views)

Yes, v3.3.. - LightWeight 2003-03-26 12:48:42 (605 views)

That same 2000 APR A-box was 8hp less but 2 lb-ft more than a 2001.5 M-box GIAC X chip. - Third ROC 2003-03-26 12:46:31 (677 views)

Not really comparable, it depends on too many factors, the dyno itself being one of them. - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 12:46:03 (495 views)

The cars I'm talking about were on the same dyno. The v3.2 runs were from several 2001+ cars. - Third ROC 2003-03-26 12:48:51 (581 views)

Looks like ABT and MTM have their shit together. Where are the MAP and A/F graphs? - BryanGT 2003-03-26 12:25:55 (771 views)

what block on VAG 002 ? - xccess 2003-03-26 12:36:45 (559 views)

Did you VAG log these runs? Post anything you got :-) - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 12:38:44 (522 views)

no but it is possible if the request is make.. - xccess 2003-03-26 12:40:25 (605 views)

Manifold pressure Vs. RPM, and the dyno's wideband O2 vs. RPM... - BryanGT 2003-03-26 12:47:22 (830 views)

003 (airflow and timing) for sure, maybe 115 (boost), 002 (air and fuel) - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 12:46:43 (639 views)

I assume we can do all three block at the same time right ? - xccess 2003-03-26 12:51:48 (510 views)

Like Bryan said wideband is best, then just do 115 (manifold pressure) and 003 (timing/air) - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 13:17:25 (518 views)

Yes, but you'll only get 1 sample per second that way. Do them seperately for a better sample rate. - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 12:55:29 (575 views)

Air fuel is more accurate when read externally (Wideband); you should be able to read 2 blocks... - BryanGT 2003-03-26 12:55:17 (528 views)

How's this for a thought: - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 12:01:40 (1012 views)

lol poor MTM....the beer bitch. - SlowestS4Here 2003-03-26 12:27:40 (893 views)

And what about this dyno from AWE WebSite ??? 389 lbs-ft torque - Chuck-S4 2003-03-26 11:51:55 (1099 views)

different cars different run, can not be compare.. just like when I go to different dyno system - xccess 2003-03-26 12:49:21 (629 views)

Chuck definitely not comparable - Prodigy 2003-03-26 11:58:56 (626 views)

No, those are wheel numbers on that dyno. That's what an X will dyno on the dyno I've been on. - The R 2003-03-26 12:12:17 (642 views)

I'm talking about the 389 number he brought up - Prodigy 2003-03-26 12:13:52 (532 views)

Oh ok, gotcha. My bad...I'm in a hurry so I'm not paying attention. :-p - The R 2003-03-26 12:18:46 (514 views)

Many factors I know ; but I did buy my chip based on that dyno sheet. - Chuck-S4 2003-03-26 12:00:43 (560 views)

What year is an M box? - used2bmcouper-nowa6r 2003-03-26 11:44:30 (606 views)

2001.5 - DAP 2003-03-26 11:45:20 (629 views)

Damn, that M-box APR chip looks like it's broken... - LCP 2003-03-26 11:37:46 (1078 views)

it could , but I highly dout it since ABT was a first chip that ran - xccess 2003-03-26 11:40:40 (731 views)

Great work! That X -chip dyno is NOT smooth. Confirms what I felt when testing it. - Argeiphontes 2003-03-26 11:35:31 (959 views)

For all that say the X is unrefined or overkill. Go buy an A4 give me the booooost! - BLK01S4 2003-07-02 09:08:44 (587 views)

Giac X is great,I have one for sale ..... - SDS4 2003-03-26 11:28:21 (2135 views)

Nice work. X chip has a serious a torque peak. - Symbiotic 2003-03-26 11:28:01 (815 views)

Has anyone elaborated on whats producing the spike ? - Prodigy 2003-03-26 11:33:44 (657 views)

It is pretty aggressive. However I was only seeing 15-17 PSI - Symbiotic 2003-03-26 11:49:17 (690 views)

The X seems a little, shall I say X-tream... - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 11:38:51 (944 views)

Unrefined??? - SlvrBulletS4 2003-03-26 11:46:00 (923 views)

large boost spikes, ruff power curves...what do you call it? Smooth? - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 11:48:35 (703 views)

No I call it torque! - SlvrBulletS4 2003-03-26 11:51:36 (807 views)

If only my x-chipped Titty pulled ahead on every shift.. :( - LightWeight 2003-03-26 12:51:56 (826 views)

If I wanted a peaky torque curve I'd buy a single turbo Supra... - BryanGT 2003-03-26 12:42:58 (831 views)

In the end the X chip take the trophy. - Blitz 4 U only $35k 2003-03-26 12:57:59 (698 views)

Theres a name for people who only care about peak power. Starts with "Dyno", ends with "Queen". :-P - BryanGT 2003-03-26 13:22:58 (624 views)

Until you're blowing oil all over'm ; ^ P - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 13:06:44 (648 views)

*DING* *DING* *DING* Winnar! - Argeiphontes 2003-03-26 12:57:29 (735 views)

I'm not talking about the "spike in power", but the large 1.5 bar boost spikes... - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 12:02:12 (767 views)

XR = 1.5+bar and is unrefined. But vers.8 X is very smooth, controlled, and refined IMO. - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 12:33:39 (606 views)

Agreed... - Milpitas2.7T 2003-03-26 12:42:50 (652 views)

I'm guessing every one of those chips boosts above 1.2 bar. 1.3 peaks seem to be par for the course. - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 12:09:54 (556 views)

yes 1.2+ bar at that rpm is within spec as per the compressor maps! - SlvrBulletS4 2003-03-26 12:06:28 (661 views)

Ok, well in my humble opinion the X-chip is still unrefined... - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 12:18:59 (624 views)

Cut the X some slack man ;-). Also the fact the X runs a little richer is a plus. - Symbiotic 2003-03-26 12:43:06 (688 views)

Hmmm, that would have been fun... - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 12:49:13 (589 views)

I long for the day when these compressor maps will be available for viewing....sigh - Prodigy 2003-03-26 12:11:47 (553 views)

www.sjmautotechnik.com - NonBenz OZ SL GB 2003-03-26 15:42:02 (805 views)

Ouch, looks like APR is having some timing issues on this M-Box... - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 11:26:00 (695 views)

Did anybody ever dyno a APR 100? How does an APR100 compare to an X? - Boosted6 2003-03-26 12:00:00 (678 views)

Yes. - The R 2003-03-26 12:17:54 (799 views)

It will be interesting to see how my car handles the APR programming - Symbiotic 2003-03-26 11:42:50 (699 views)

Yeah, don't know what their deal is with the M box...only runs good if you have a Stage III. - The R 2003-03-26 11:28:13 (576 views)

Wow! Very nice! Thank you! - RKA 2003-03-26 11:24:37 (595 views)

This post will be referenced much in the future. Dare I say this post will end the debate? - Markcore 2003-03-26 11:24:04 (625 views)

I dout it :) - xccess 2003-03-26 11:27:05 (620 views)

Great work!! - Steve Trac 2003-03-26 11:19:08 (536 views)

damn. - stickerboy^TM uroslut 2003-03-26 11:17:26 (570 views)

nice work man...good of you to take the time. - Mr. Piggie(mike01s4) 2003-03-26 11:17:24 (709 views)

Was this APR's 93 octane program or the 91 running on 93? - used2bmcouper-nowa6r 2003-03-26 11:13:21 (820 views)

93 Octane V3.3 - The Reaper 2003-03-26 21:29:28 (602 views)

It looks more like the 85 octane program based on the timing. - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 11:17:51 (678 views)

APR actually seems to have better low end hp & torque than Abt. Just loses it above 4k RPMs - Mark P 2003-03-26 11:52:56 (686 views)

Yea so my APR chip is a big freaking POS....lots of torque though - used2bmcouper-nowa6r 2003-03-26 11:26:55 (1252 views)

Once they fix the timing above 4000rpm APR will be up there with the rest. - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 12:17:20 (525 views)

When is that going to happen? It's not like this is a new problem. - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 12:19:04 (588 views)

it's going on right now - Mark P 2003-03-26 12:32:13 (697 views)

Patiently awaiting the M whooooWhhooOOOO. - Hal S4 2003-03-27 04:37:10 (524 views)

Excellent, keep us posted! - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 12:37:29 (493 views)

Good to hear, but kind of sad since the non-A box chips have been out for over 2 years. - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 12:35:42 (556 views)

APR 93 on 93 octane - xccess 2003-03-26 11:15:54 (1068 views)

Do you have the orignial PDF files? Could you e-mail them to me? - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 11:12:20 (574 views)

no.. I did with the scanner and it turn in to the JPEG format... - xccess 2003-03-26 11:15:04 (584 views)

Could you e-mail me the large jpeg files? - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 11:18:25 (582 views)

sure..let me zip up and I will send it over - xccess 2003-03-26 11:20:48 (537 views)

Thx. - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 11:22:53 (655 views)

Very cool! Nice job! - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 11:10:02 (657 views)

What about TAP? hehe - [H]Skrill 2003-03-26 11:07:47 (618 views)

got not TAP... - xccess 2003-03-26 11:10:34 (728 views)

Nice - totally agrees with my VAG acceleration results. X > ABT > MTM > APR. By the way, - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 11:07:02 (979 views)

That seems *mostly* accurate with what I've seen on the local dyno - SmokinS4 w/Achtuning 2003-03-26 13:01:06 (701 views)

Look at the torque, not HP... - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 11:31:12 (804 views)

I agree - the APR issue is in a narrow RPM window, after the TQ peak, but - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 12:21:17 (700 views)

I agree totally and the problem the APR M-box has is unacceptable - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 12:53:09 (716 views)

What are you running now. - 2k2S4 2003-03-26 12:56:29 (514 views)

Older APR 91/100... - s4IRIsH 2003-03-26 13:00:05 (630 views)

Darin didn't you also post boost vs. rpm plots - Prodigy 2003-03-26 11:29:23 (848 views)

Yep, X runs a little higher boost than ABT, at least 1psi on avg - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 12:24:39 (572 views)

hmm for some reason I thought it was more, maybe XR is the one I have in mind - Prodigy 2003-03-26 12:32:08 (572 views)

I believe what this means is if you had an X, you could probably hit 12s. =] - Markcore 2003-03-26 11:36:50 (622 views)

or - Prodigy 2003-03-26 11:47:04 (662 views)

we did try to run it with the race fuel, but the fuel is bad. - xccess 2003-03-26 11:12:17 (646 views)

dyno plots ownZ U!! - BiTurboBoy 2003-03-26 11:02:16 (658 views)

FYI.... - xccess 2003-03-26 11:08:49 (731 views)

Me thinks APR needs to do some revisions...pronto. - Hal S4 2003-03-26 11:00:15 (752 views)

V3.3 - LightWeight 2003-03-26 12:45:14 (528 views)

Yeah, the issue (timing) has been identified for some time now. - DarinS4Turbo 2003-03-26 11:11:49 (576 views)

And the X-Chip takes the cake in this comparo! Thx xccess! Great work. - SlowestS4Here 2003-03-26 10:59:21 (714 views)

were the rollers lubed before EVERY run??? Unscientific results! - MichaelTM 2003-03-26 10:55:55 (791 views)

I believe Todd has ask me to... - xccess 2003-03-26 11:00:42 (831 views)

it's good to have you back - i laugh more - dscottjr 2003-03-26 10:56:44 (646 views)

Hmm, the ABT HP curve is nice and smooth, like stock. - OldSkewS4 2003-03-26 10:53:22 (763 views)

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