superswiss

^^ Progressive steering is what everybody else seems to be doing. This is what I have in my AMG. It's predictable, because for any given steering angle, the ratio is always the same. As said, I like it much better. Didn't know Audi had a progressive steering option now, at least overseas, but maybe they came out with it in response to the criticism of the Dynamic Steering. Perhaps that's the direction they are moving now.

Jeffc

It's a mute point now. There is a production hold an cars with the 3.0T engine. I'll have to find a car in current inventory, and none of them have the DS option. A lot of people who have had both say that DS doesn't add more weight to the steering. That's all I really wanted to accomplish.

superswiss

I'm guessing that's related to their use of a banned Chinese part and having thousands of their cars impounded at U.S. ports.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/02/th...ed-labor-laws/

Glisse

And you've now added lots of numbers...

Audi's PR codes are not reliable as unique part number identifiers, they are an order code linked to the production of a specific model. You will find that 1N7 was the option code for Dynamic steering in a B8 RS4/5.

The configurator is wrong. If you were to look at the full price lists for the B9 RS4 or RS6 you will see that the PR code in the price list is 1N8, not 1N7. It is the same for the C8 RS6 and 7. The German configurator (much better than using the Audi UK site, which has very limited options and models) is also wrong, and everything is then translated from this. But if you expand out the Competition Plus package on the German site, which includes Dynamic steering, you will see it referred to as dynamic steering (dynamiklenkung) and not progressive steering (progressivklenkung). Possibly someone was thinking the Dynamic steering description causes too much confusion given the use of Dynamic in MMI/ADS mode settings, where normal steering can be set to Dynamic (less boost assistance)? Just creating more confusion in the process.

The 1N8 dynamic steering unit is made by ZF. You would know better than me whether there are various parts versions of this. It is of course software controlled, and there have been some software updates since its release. The race setting you have picked up on is most likely to be the fixed ratio setting used in an RS product's MMI/ADS Dynamic steering setting, which is now 13.1:1 on the Competition Plus. The dynamic setting for 1N8 is most likely the variable setting used on A and S model B9's. There may be some potential to altering the parameters for each of the 4 potential MMI presets (see the linked post), but unknown. It is possibly not difficult to switch from dynamic to race mode as the MMI/ADS dynamic setting via coding, but I'm not going to try. As for the detailed parameters, such as the fixed ratio in race setting, am not sure whether that would be addressable, or advisable to attempt.

As the linked post from one of the larger German forums points out, very likely to cause some issues in the process:
https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/lenk...l#post66086819

As an aside, there are many dozens of posts on Dynamic steering on the German forums. And a few here over the years (mainly in the A5 sub-forum rather than here). So it causes widespread confusion / queries, regardless of location. Advice is consistent though - just try it. And the majority of people that have it like it, and find going back to standard steering less precise. Certainly my experience too. And the B9 is a distinct step up in how integrated all the drivetrain and chassis systems operate - it is an MLB Evo thing. The B8 was cruder.

Anyway, Audi have progressively (!) removed Dynamic steering from the B9 options list - the A4 models from mid last year, the S4 a few months later, and now the A5 and S5 models have gone too. Only available in RS versions in most markets now. So was a bit surprised that it is showing on the US configurator as other EA839 versions in other markets no longer offer Dynamic steering options. But as the OP has just indicated, moot point anyway as they aren't accepting orders. The Euro spec S4/S5 models are no longer on sale, given production backlogs on 48v MH system vehicles. Doesn't affect petrol B9's.

Dan99

@superswiss It looks like the Dynamic/Progressive Steering issue has been resolved as much as possible to this point, so I will now address the points you made in the above post which, of course, you made in response to my post #32.

Yes, I read your posts on topics of interest to me. Your posts, along with @Glisse were absolutely the most beneficial posts I found when I first got my 2019 RS5. I also find contributions from @SMac770 help cut through some of the speculation and provide clarity when we most need it. We seem to be better in combination than in isolation.

I find many of your posts to be helpful and, while I have not read all of them, I have read all of those in threads of interest to me for 5 years and that includes posts that preceded my involvement in the forum. I have complimented you multiple times and even done so within the last couple of weeks. I'm no stranger to your posts, or to your knowledge of the brand.

Where was I in 2006? I was driving a Mercedes sport coupe, so I guess we have traded places as you now drive one instead of an Audi. Before spending the last 13 years with Audi, I spent 8 years with Mercedes, 17 years driving Porsches prior to that, and a number of sports coupes and 2 seat sports cars before that. I come from a car family that has done everything from restoring classic Jaguars and Cords, to rebuilding British sports cars, to building custom Corvettes on competition frames, and I've even worked the assembly line in an engine factory.

Am I a "new kid"? Not even close. While you have been on Audiworld longer than me, it appears that I have about as much Audi ownership experience as you do, except that mine is more recent. If you owned Audis from 2006 to 2019 when you traded in your 2013 RS5 for a 2019 MB C63s, you have about 13 years or so of Audi ownership. So do I. I also know that you have experience beyond those years of ownership. So do I. In addition to experience with other performance brands, the 2019 RS5 is my third Audi since 2011, and I also have Audi-specific track experience in R8, RS7, RS5, S4, RS3, TTRS, TTS, and SQ5, and have driven an R8 Spyder around Europe. I have been on race tracks in Audis more times than I can count, and participated in performance driving instruction numerous times including once with an instructor who previously drove Audis in the DTM series. I'm not without knowledge and experience with the brand, and certainly no stranger to performance cars in general or to Audis in a performance environment. I'm not trying to detract from your knowledge and experience, but I hardly qualify as a "new kid" and refuse to be dismissed as such by you.

I joined Audiworld in 2019 after I took delivery of my 2019 RS5 Sportback. I was one of the first people to own one and found Audiworld while I was trying to figure out winter tires and wheels. The car was new and there were literally no options at the time. I approached tirerack and worked with them for a solution. If you go to tirerack.com and shop for RS5 Sportback wheels, you will see an image of my car. It was the first one they encountered and the image on their website is my car. They laser measured my car and use those dimensions to determine which wheels fit this model. So, I was in a position to share my early experience with the new RS5 Sportback long before most people even saw one. That's when I became active on the Audi forums, and I have tried to pass on what I learned over the years to help others.

Why did I write post #32? I'm feeling like I need to fact-check your comparisons between current Audi products and your 2019 MB C63s. When you help you are great, but many of your posts have become more about your MB than Audi. In this thread alone, 7 of your 11 posts (before post #32) presented something about Audi then transitioned into you talking about your Mercedes. Of course you can do that all you want, in the same way that I can push back if I want.

Normally I would not care if you made comparisons that were fair, but many are not. And, they serve no purpose in this thread other than attempting to promote your 2019 Mercedes C63s over anything Audi, including the 2024 S4 that OP was inquiring about.

For example, you talk about performance driving in canyons. Great, I also do canyons, track and autocross. You criticized Audi for its numb steering (See posts 2, 12). First, let's talk about what is meant by "numb steering" in a performance context. You have the opposite of "numb" when you have "steering feel", which is when you get enough feedback through the steering wheel to know exactly when the front tires begin to lose traction while driving aggressively in a turn. Anything less than that is “numb”. Other than Porsche, and perhaps Alpha Romeo, I am not aware of any manufacturer that delivers steering feel in cars at this price range, and that includes Audi, MB and BMW. Reviewers complain about the lack of steering feel in the new BMW G80; they also claim that MB products are more numb than BMW. All of these brands have numb steering in a performance context. You still have control, but there is simply a lack of steering feedback in today's eco-friendly steering systems. Yet, you imply Audi is an outlier in this regard to someone who is in the process of ordering an Audi.

You are inconsistent between posts at times. In this thread you were trying to make the point that Dynamic Steering messes up the transition between Comfort, Auto and Dynamic (post 14). You called it "jarring" to switch between modes with DS. This is absurd. You can switch between all 3 modes while driving and you won't notice any change in steering ratios with the switch. Perhaps you might if you were in a newer RS5 in the middle of a turn, but who changes Drive Select modes in the middle of a turn? Also in post 14, you complained that it was hard to drive in Dynamic then transition to Auto and park the car but, previously in post #2, you said that DS was nice for low speed maneuvers in parking lots. So, which is it? Do you like it for parking, or not?

Your comparison of Audi's Dynamic Steering (DS) with Mercedes progressive steering (PS) is convoluted. (See link in post #2, then post #3 in the linked thread. Also see post 12.) You discussed it in a performance context (canyons) and said DS gives you a different steering ratio at 30 mph than 50 mph and that messed with your ability to drive your old RS5 effectively; whereas your C63s steering ratio varies with the angle of the steering wheel and that's better. You also made special mention of mid-course corrections while cornering, and complained about how poorly your old Audi handled them.

I say that Audi/DS and MB/PS provide the same result if you are using proper technique in aggressive cornering, as long as you don't have to make mid-course corrections. But if mid-course corrections are necessary, Audi's approach is more predictable because its steering ratio does not vary with mid-course corrections like MB does. Let's dig into this.

If you are driving aggressively through a turn at 30 mph (as described in post 12), it is a slow, sharp turn and you will get quick steering ratios with both DS and PS -- DS steering is quick because your road speed is slow, and PS steering becomes quicker as you turn the steering wheel farther and farther for the sharp turn. If your next turn is a 50 mph turn, it won't be as sharp as the 30 mph turn so you will be driving faster, and both systems will give you a less aggressive steering ratio that is appropriate for a faster turn -- Audi/DS will provide slower steering because your road speed is faster, MB/PS will provide slower steering because you don’t have to turn the steering wheel as much. On the other hand, if you are talking about taking the same turn at 30 mph then at 50 mph, any comparison is irrelevant because you are driving the same corner aggressively at 50 mph, and casually at 30 mph so mid-course corrections are not necessary. Yet, you made an issue of mid-course corrections being unpredictable in this scenario with DS.

Corner-Driving 101 says to slow down before a corner and maintain a constant speed through that corner until you begin to exit the turn. If you have to change speed earlier in a corner, it is only because you entered the turn either too fast or too slow. So, if you enter a corner at the correct speed and don't have to make a mid-course correction, both DS and PS will give you an appropriately fast steering ratio for the duration of the turn. However, if you do need mid-course corrections, Audi gives you a fixed ratio for those corrections, but MB does not. Instead, MB/PS gives you a faster ratio for mid-course corrections if you have to turn-in more, and a slower ratio if you have to turn-out more. This inconsistency does not happen with Audi/DS. Yet, you labeled MB as more predictable. In practice though, any difference has to be minuscule if you are using proper cornering technique.

Further, your description of how your 2013 B8.5 RS5 handled corners does not accurately portray how current Audi models handle. Audi heard the suspension complaints for your version of the RS5 loud and clear and made substantial changes to the B9 RS5. Mine does not exhibit any of the weird behaviors in turns that you describe. Yet, you continue to use comparisons with your old Audi as though they represent the current models. They don’t, and you fail to acknowlege those differences when comparing your old RS5 to your newer but discontinued MB C63s (Follow the link in post #2, along with post #12).

Frankly, when you make frequent Audi posts that are just preambles to talking about your Mercedes, and you misrepresent Audi in the process, you just look a lot like an MB troll. This applies either directly or by inference to 7 of the 11 posts you made prior to #32. MB/AMG, Audi/RS and BMW/M all make great cars, but they cater to different audiences and excel in different areas. If your top priority is track, you should get a BMW; if your top priority is luxury with power, get an MB; if you want balance between those two extremes, and better traction, get an Audi.

Finally, let's not forget that OP was looking for advice on Audi/DS for a 2024 S4, and you spent about as much time talking about your discontinued Mercedes C63s as you did Audi. I don’t know how describing a Mercedes of any type helps someone decide on one single option for an Audi order but, if it did, the only fair comparison would be between a 2024 S4 and 2024 C43 as they are direct competitors. After all, OP was only asking about Audi/DS. He did not ask if he should get an Audi or Mercedes. Still, the comparisons you provided to “help” OP decide on the Dynamic Steering option for his 2024 S4 were between your 2013 RS5 and your 2019 C63s. Really?

So, what's the point of all the MB fan-boy comments in an Audi Forum? You can post whatever you want, but I encourage you to make your posts more current, and more about Audi than Mercedes. I only hit a few of the issues I encountered just in this thread, so let me know If you want to dive deeper into any of this.

New To You, but Not New

SleeperCar

I bought an Audi S4 b9.5 2 months ago and I sadly have to say this the audis don’t handle as good as Bimmers
My Flatmate has a 330i Rwd.
I was surprised, I feel more confident on corner when in that 300i than my s4 which even has sports diff
the car is fast but to handling standards to control that power is very low

Dan99

As pointed out above, "MB/AMG, Audi/RS and BMW/M all make great cars, but they cater to different audiences and excel in different areas. If your top priority is track, you should get a BMW; if your top priority is luxury with power, get an MB; if you want balance between those two extremes, and better traction, get an Audi."

I have been on a track with many Audis and BMWs. I would expect a skilled driver in a BMW to do better than a skilled driver in a comparable Audi. However, all BMW drivers don't have that level of skill. A skilled driver in an Audi will do better than a less skilled driver in a comparable BMW.

There are a few things you can do to make sure your stock Audi is doing all that it is capable of - tire pressures and driving techniques. Another thread dealt with the differences between a RWD BRZ and an older AWD B8.5 S4. While your B9.5 S4 is more capable than the older S4, the same principles apply to setting tires pressures to improve handling, and adapting your driving technique to an AWD platform. The tuning portion of that post is specific to the B8.5, so it does not apply directly to your car. Here is a link to that post:

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/s4-.../#post25894736

In addition to the information in the above post, remember that the Sport Differential comes to life: 1) in Dynamic, 2) under power. This means that the rear end will be more active and help rotate the car as you reach the apex of a turn and begin to apply power. Drive in Sport or Manual to keep the engine in its power range, and you will get the most rotation in Dynamic, less in Auto, and none in Comfort. The more power you apply, the more active the Sport Differential will be, and with AWD you will be able to apply more power sooner than a RWD BMW. In other words, you will get more out of your Audi by driving it like an AWD Audi instead of driving it like a RWD BMW.

I've had 2 S4s, currently have an RS5, and it took me a while to figure this stuff out. I hope it helps you get more out of your S4, even if you still prefer how your Flatmates BMW gets through turns.

Glisse

The title of your post states BMW M340i. Then your second mention is a 330i. Then your third mention is a 300i. Yeah, sure.

I assume most people test drive comparable cars, and then choose to buy the car that has the best set of attributes for their needs. It seems you did not do this, assuming your post is genuine.
But to sign up to an Audi forum to make a first post that you prefer the handling on an indeterminable RWD 3 series BMW over your 2 month old S4 is hard to take seriously.

If your post is actually genuine, you should post more information, as something is not right with your car. Dan's information was very helpful, although those comments appeared more directed at AMG, M division and Audi Sport/RS set ups. Not only that, but M Division (which is run by an ex-Audi Sport/quattro GmbH guy) are progressively moving all their vehicles over to AWD. As are Mercedes-AMG. Good reason for that - RWD has limited traction.

You don't mention what market you are in, nor what tyres are on the cars. If you are talking about a RWD version of an M340i, then you must be in the North American region, because they only sold AWD/xDrive versions everywhere else IIRC. And it must be a G20 series, because the F30 series is poor. Not only that, but M Division (which is run by an ex-Audi Sport/quattro GmbH guy) are progressively moving all their vehicles over to AWD. As are Mercedes-AMG.

The Sport differential, in dynamic mode, will move the rear of the car around when pushed hard. Perhaps that makes you feel less stable? Perhaps you bought your S4 with all-season tyres. Perhaps you have not correctly set the tyre pressures? But if a RWD BMW feels more stable in cornering than your S4 on the same roads at similar speeds in the same weather conditions, you have a problem...

Dan99

Agreed, especially the observation that it was his first post. I did not notice that.

While I do take issue with some of the AMG-focused comments in other posts, the link above does not mention or even imply anything to do with AMG. It responded directly to questions in OP's original post regarding differences between his BRZ and his newly acquired B8.5 S4. I also offered some tips in tire inflation and AWD driving techniques to help get acquainted with the S4 and how to adapt driving techniques to AWD.

Glisse

^^

I hadn't read the evolution of the BZR thread, as the OP seemed a bit odd to me - they had bought a completely different class of car. He should have bought an RS3 or Golf R within the VAG family. Or maybe a Honda Type R.

There is a shared connection to the two threads in that people are buying cars, then complaining about some innate aspect of the car they have just bought. Don't they do any research? Don't they test drive a competitive set? I find that odd too.

However, in this thread, an F30 series BMW is a pretty lousy vehicle in terms of steering, suspension, and handling. Whilst some sycophantic elements in UK and US motoring media might have held onto dreams/PR feed of the ultimate driving machine, the BMW F30 3ier was pilloried in their home market press vs their competitors, so they needed to improve it.

I haven't driven a G20, which is apparently better - it needed to be. If I was buying a new car tomorrow, certainly the BMW M340i touring would be on my test drive list, as it was last time (the 440i is now too ugly for consideration ). It may be the OP here just preferred the unencumbered front axle sensation of a RWD car whilst cornering. As you mentioned in that linked post I have now read. But that's not stability, which seemed to be this OP's complaint. They either have an issue or it is a bogus post.