westwest888

I find the B9 A4 to be totally adequate. The S4 has to be amazing.

dbuxton13

All true, and after a year in Europe so far, I have a better appreciation of the cost differences associated with buying and maintaining an auto here. In short: expensive!


I am fortunate to have a specialized US military car buying program for overseas members. When the S4 becomes available for order, I can get a custom built, US-spec version to be delivered straight from the factory to my local (Germany) village Military AutoSource (MAS) center. The cost savings are enormous. There is no dealer mark-up, as there is no dealer. Just the cost of managing the program and paying the employees. I also won't owe any sales tax (VAT), which in Germany amounts to 19%. My military status exempts me from paying customs/import tax on the sale of the car when I ship it to the US in a couple years. All told, I'm looking at ~$60K for a fully optioned prestige model. If an RS4 miraculously becomes available for the US, I will definitely consider it, should the price increase prove reasonable.

dbuxton13

I enjoyed that video, and rather informative. In fact, I will now make it relevant to the S4...

The RS6 has less power than the R8 (552hp vs 610hp) and (what? Do my eyes deceive?) lo and behold it has the ZF8HP versus the dual clutch gearbox in the R8.

Which one pulls away faster off the line? With no launch control and a heavier avant body? In the lead well past 100kph? That's right, the lowly ZF torque converter transmission. The R8 eventually overtakes with its greater power. But nonetheless, at some point the ZF8HP bashing needs to stop, it's a great gearbox!

Glisse

Nice try, LOL!

I think there are two and a half reasons for the RS6 vs R8 result. Firstly, the NA engine in the R8 builds linear torque, whereas the RS6 has the usual FI huge torque plateau down low. So right off the line, even with launch control, the R8 has a big torque deficit to the RS6.

Secondly, the R8 uses a (much modified) Haldex V AWD system, vs the crown gear self-locking centre differential AWD in the RS6 ( and which is also in the S4 ). The Haldex in the mid engined R8 has a strong rear bias, with the weight transfer to the rear on take-off, the R8 is struggling to get enough drive out of the front. The RS6/S4 quattro system works better here.

The half is because Matt jumped the start in the RS6

But I will stop bashing for now.

Automann has released a static Talking clip, first half in English, where he talks specifically about the new engine, how he finds it compared to the supercharger version, and how it compares to the Mercedes-AMG C43 he drove the week prior. Which I found relevant and interesting. His personal car is an S3, for the record.

Glisse

No argument on the A4's abilities.

The issue is whether they have added anything "extra" to the S4 which makes this version distinctly more sporting than the standard range. In the US, this distinction is manipulated by Audi America because you cannot option an A4 with a V6, with adaptive sports suspension, with sports differential, with full S line treatment, etc.

But here in (my part of) Europe, you can. So I am looking at just what that "extra" from being an S model actually is, or is it "just" an A4 with a bigger engine. It is more about character and emotion than anything on a spec sheet.

dbuxton13

A4 Limousine > Audi Deutschland


Good grief, you weren't kidding about the options. That motor list at Audi.de has about 50 different configurations of motor/transmission variants.


One minor detail though, the A4 3.0L is diesel only, correct? Aren't the engine and torque characteristics different between TDI and TFSI? Unless I'm wrong, the best performance is still found in the TFSI 3.0L which is only on the S4, no?

Glisse

Yes, two versions of the 3.0TDI. I have only driven the high output version, which has the ZF8 (the lower output version of the 3.0TDI has S tronic). It has ~270hp vs 354hp in the S4. But it has more torque: ~440ft-lbs vs 369ft-lbs in the S4. The TDI engine is heavier than the TFSI engine - by a lot. The S4 is closer in weight to the A4 quattro 2.0TFSI than the 3.0TDI. The diesel is quick in the mid range, didn't feel so quick off the line to me - a bit lazy. It's a diesel - there is no top end power, all about riding the torque between 1500 and 4000rpm. Audi rates the 3.0TDI 0-100kph performance exactly half way between the quattro 2.0TFSI and the S4. I'm not a big diesel fan, although can understand the attraction for some. They'll sell way more of the quattro 3.0TDI than the S4 because of the fuel consumption difference.

But I don't think the S4 will appear in dealerships (in Germany) until August. The configurator should finally go live within the next two weeks or so. Not sure where that leaves you, as I assume you cannot order until Audi America have signed off on packaging. That may not be for a while, so you will probably be able to drive it before being able to place an order anyway.

Hopefully Audi have some system in place to change your GPS map software when the car eventually goes over the pond. Or as it is a US spec, maybe it is pre-loaded with NA maps? I guess you can use Google maps via MMI or the smart phone MMI interface whilst in Europe if that is the case. I'm not up with that stuff.