Audi -put the new S8 engine into the next RS4
12-29-2011, 08:52 PM
#71
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
01-02-2012, 10:55 PM
#72
Audiworld Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While at it why not request they should put the space shuttle engine in it...lol Then it could beat every car on the road. I mean so many other requests are not realistic in any way...lol
01-03-2012, 08:46 PM
#73
AudiWorld Member
This reminds me of one of the British Top Gear episodes where VW gave them a Golf that was modified with a wider body and suspension, rear-wheel drive, and a 500+hp engine stuffed in the trunk, this was a big fail. They claimed no one wanted a supercar that looked like a golf inside and out... I wonder if the same applies when stuffing a supercar like engine in a RS4? Don't get me wrong, it would be cool to have a 500+HP engine in a RS4 if it didn't upset the car's balance =)... this was just a funny thought that came to mind.
01-04-2012, 06:22 AM
#74
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RS4 much different than a golf.
That would be like saying putting a 505HP V10 in an E60 is dumb....
It wasnt. It was glorious as I had one for 6 months now holding onto for a good family friend.
That would be like saying putting a 505HP V10 in an E60 is dumb....
It wasnt. It was glorious as I had one for 6 months now holding onto for a good family friend.
01-04-2012, 06:43 AM
#75
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 450HP RS5 is only .4 seconds faster than a 333HP S4 from 0 to 62 mph,(Also keep in mind the RS5 has a launch control, where S4 does not) The extra ponies will only matter in top gear heading toward max RPM; most of us won't get there due rev limiters and jail time. So, again, the imaginary B8 4.2 V8 RS4's extra weight on the nose, extra inertia to break, the poorer handling created by the weight imbalance just won't make a good enough car to bother making it. It needs a lighter more potent engine, or at least much more potent engine to make-up for potential handling issues if they can't keep the nose weight down.
2 B8 is under-rated right? It probably makes about 350-360 hp AND torque...and that torque is available off idle almost. It's an incredible torque profile and is the reason the car dominates its class, and is the reason we're even discussing it. A small V6 should be trounced by a high revving V8, but the B8 S4 powerplant is awesome. Quoting hp numbers, from the factory, tells almost NONE of the story.
3. you're talking about a 0-62mph sprint (basically redlining gears 1 and 2) and then saying that HP doesn't matter..that makes no sense. You also said 'The extra ponies will only matter in top gear heading toward max RPM'. You do know that hp is a measurement based on crank revolutions and torque...in each gear...from idle to redline...and not just top gear...right?
4. you also know that the fastest magazine test of a B8 S4 running through 4 gears, all to redline, produced a 12.8 or 12.9 @ 108 mph quarter mile (Road and Track)...and you also know that the fastest test of a B8 RS5 produced a quarter mile time in the of 12.5 @ 112 (car and driver). At the quarter mile mark, the 3-4 tenths of a second difference between those two cars is 3-4 car lengths, right? a.k.a. a buslength. It's a pretty big gap. I'm not sure where your logic for dismissing nearly half a second comes from, in any short race. You need to race more to feel how big that gap really is. In my old high 12 second B7 S4 I raced the fastest pump gas B8 S4 (81bear) from 50-120mph when he had tune/exhaust/LW wheels/HFC, and he was an easy 2.5 car lengths ahead of me. It felt like I wasn't moving when he whooshed past me in 4th. You need to lose a race by 0.4 seconds or 3-4 car lengths in order to understand how big 3-4 car lengths really is in a short race.
5. Your concern about the weight of the V8 at the front of the car is a bit overblown. The V8 4.2 FSI high revving version is a very light engine for a V8, being all aluminium. They weigh 467 lbs...including the transmission...the clutch...the flywheel. What does the B8 S4 engine + cooling + supercharger + transmission + clutch + flywheel weigh? My guess? 425+lbs.
6. Now that you know the engine weight isn't much different, let's see what happened the last time they put this 'heavy' V8 in a front engined 4 door sedan. The B7 RS4. I believe it is still top 3 lap times ever on the nurburgring for a 4 door sedan, and when we discussed this a while ago, the supposedly more nimble B8 S4 with the trick differential and the 'light' V6 couldn't beat it (and that B7 RS4 was developed in 2004-2005). Again...I think you need to get out and do some racing in these cars to understand how they perform. Bench racing doesn't give you all the info you really ought to have.
Last edited by sakimano; 01-04-2012 at 06:56 AM.
01-05-2012, 07:21 AM
#76
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting, albeit negative, tit bit from another site.
UK Stats but still interesting....
"NEW AUDI RS4 BINNED, SAYS RUMOURMILL
Word on the web suggests RS4 ditched in favor of RS6"
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=24969
Again, I don't know what these Audi GbhH meatheads are up to, but an interesting site from the discussion on that article shows RS4 licensed vehicles exceed RS6 and RS5 significantly.
RS4 3.5k, Rs6 300, RS5 300
http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=audi+rs
S4 Quattro 2.5k
http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=audi%20s4%20quattro&p=1
S6 Quattro 200
http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=audi+s6+quattro
S8 Quattro 500
http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=audi+s8+quattro
UK Stats but still interesting....
"NEW AUDI RS4 BINNED, SAYS RUMOURMILL
Word on the web suggests RS4 ditched in favor of RS6"
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=24969
Again, I don't know what these Audi GbhH meatheads are up to, but an interesting site from the discussion on that article shows RS4 licensed vehicles exceed RS6 and RS5 significantly.
RS4 3.5k, Rs6 300, RS5 300
http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=audi+rs
S4 Quattro 2.5k
http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=audi%20s4%20quattro&p=1
S6 Quattro 200
http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=audi+s6+quattro
S8 Quattro 500
http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=audi+s8+quattro
Last edited by plivac; 01-05-2012 at 07:32 AM.
01-05-2012, 07:35 AM
#77
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No great loss if that's true (but I don't think it is) since we (N.A.) weren't likely to get the RS4 anyway.
However, just wondering what an RS6 would be like...the S6 sounds like a fantastic car that will likely hit 500 hp and 450ish torque with a tune and maybe a decat (although likely with just a tune). I'd be comfortable betting that the S6 will make closer to 450 hp stock...and will be under-rated like the B8 S4.
However, just wondering what an RS6 would be like...the S6 sounds like a fantastic car that will likely hit 500 hp and 450ish torque with a tune and maybe a decat (although likely with just a tune). I'd be comfortable betting that the S6 will make closer to 450 hp stock...and will be under-rated like the B8 S4.
01-09-2012, 08:21 AM
#78
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Confirming what jstahmann told us all ages ago after his discussion with a friend who worked at quattro. In any event this was from an article in autocar. Interesting to hear from Riel, the head of quattro. Sounds like a done deal. Summary
So, that's good for North American RS4 owners...as there won't be any new competition for our car from Audi in the form of an RS sedan till probably 2015-2016 or something if an RS6 shows up. Good for B8 S4 owners too, as you're still the only fun/fast game in town for now in a reasonably sporty sized 4 door Audi.
The article intimates that B8 RS4 buyers will have an option to choose a manual OR DSG . That's pretty cool...but I find it hard to believe if the RS5 is DSG only, and if Audi has phased out manuals for cars like the S4/S5 next year.
- Avant only
- Europe only
- 4.2 FSI high-revving
So, that's good for North American RS4 owners...as there won't be any new competition for our car from Audi in the form of an RS sedan till probably 2015-2016 or something if an RS6 shows up. Good for B8 S4 owners too, as you're still the only fun/fast game in town for now in a reasonably sporty sized 4 door Audi.
The article intimates that B8 RS4 buyers will have an option to choose a manual OR DSG . That's pretty cool...but I find it hard to believe if the RS5 is DSG only, and if Audi has phased out manuals for cars like the S4/S5 next year.
Originally Posted by autocar.co.uk
Audi is turning back the clock for the next generation of RS-badged A4s by restricting the new RS4 to a five-door Avant bodystyle only.
The reasons are threefold: hot Avant models have historically outsold saloon versions, the S5 Sportback offers a performance four-door alternative and the market is moving away from hot four-doors.
“We will continue with the RS4 Avant, which has traditionally accounted for the majority of European sales,” says the boss of Audi’s quattro division, Stephan Riel, "but our research suggests the market for a saloon version is now rather limited."
The decision also chimes with Audi’s heritage of hot estates. In three-generations only the last model included an RS4 saloon.
Set for launch at Geneva, the new RS4 Avant uses the RS5’s 4.2-litre V8, developing 444bhp and 317lbft. The same engine powered the last-gen RS4, although it developed 28 fewer bhp. Also new to the RS4 is a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission, optional instead of the standard six-speed manual.
The quattro four-wheel drive system is also the latest version with torque adjustable across the rear-axle.
New ‘wave-style’ discs are added to the braking system. Eschewing conventional design, they feature small indents in the outer edges of the discs that together are claimed to reduce the weight at each corner by around 1.5 kg, reducing unsprung mass.
The reasons are threefold: hot Avant models have historically outsold saloon versions, the S5 Sportback offers a performance four-door alternative and the market is moving away from hot four-doors.
“We will continue with the RS4 Avant, which has traditionally accounted for the majority of European sales,” says the boss of Audi’s quattro division, Stephan Riel, "but our research suggests the market for a saloon version is now rather limited."
The decision also chimes with Audi’s heritage of hot estates. In three-generations only the last model included an RS4 saloon.
Set for launch at Geneva, the new RS4 Avant uses the RS5’s 4.2-litre V8, developing 444bhp and 317lbft. The same engine powered the last-gen RS4, although it developed 28 fewer bhp. Also new to the RS4 is a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission, optional instead of the standard six-speed manual.
The quattro four-wheel drive system is also the latest version with torque adjustable across the rear-axle.
New ‘wave-style’ discs are added to the braking system. Eschewing conventional design, they feature small indents in the outer edges of the discs that together are claimed to reduce the weight at each corner by around 1.5 kg, reducing unsprung mass.
01-09-2012, 09:02 AM
#79
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't understand this decision by Audi. Aren't Merc and BMW both coming out with refreshes of their high performance sedans this year? With no RS4 offering, there really isn't an Audi competitor (in N. America) to the C63 or M3 (both of which seem to be out of the S4's league). Plus, it's not like Audi really had a problem with sales of the B7 RS4.
Strange and disappointing . . .
Strange and disappointing . . .
01-09-2012, 10:14 AM
#80
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't understand this decision by Audi. Aren't Merc and BMW both coming out with refreshes of their high performance sedans this year? With no RS4 offering, there really isn't an Audi competitor (in N. America) to the C63 or M3 (both of which seem to be out of the S4's league). Plus, it's not like Audi really had a problem with sales of the B7 RS4.
Strange and disappointing . . .
Strange and disappointing . . .
Bottom line is that if you want an M/RS/AMG avant in this segment, you have only two choices. If you want AWD, you have only one choice. It's a pretty niche car. It will sell very well in Europe. Considering that's the only place it'll be launched, that's kind of all that matters. Don't forget, first buyers of these cars rarely make any 'tuning' changes...so a 450 hp avant is pretty much right where it needs to be. The new M3 will be a turbo 6 making around the same power. Again, focus on first buyers and what you need to do to keep those people happy...not the tuner happy-second/third hand buyer forum junkies (a small percentage of the market) or the modify-my-new-car-while-in-warranty guys (an even smaller segment)
Last edited by sakimano; 01-09-2012 at 10:16 AM.