An honest B7 RS4 to stage 3+ B5 S4 comparison
12-30-2006, 03:31 PM
#11
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so funny how u justify everything (id act the same way if i paid $75k+ for a $30k base vehicle)
all in all, a very good comparison of the 2 vehicles, cept for...
you are right very accurate in your descriptions about 1-power, 2-handling, 3- shifter/clutch, 5- and 6-interior/erg.
ARGUMENTS:
1-POWER. UGH! all that money and you basically get the B7 S4 engine. its a solid one, but how bout the RS6 engine, or a much more aggressively tuned version of the 4.2??? for less than half the price of the RS4, you could get every top-notch part for the 2.7tt, and build your way to a faster and pretty reliable engine, again car+mods would still be less the HALF the price of the new RS4.
2-HANDLING. no arguments here cept... lol! even for a 2ton car the B7 RS4 handles incredibly! but of course, my gripe here would be, for that much money, why did they build-out a PIGGISH type of car? i mean its no w8 passat, or some other pig like that, but hundreds more lbs??? should be the other way around... like every other touring car out there! they are lighter than the std or sport versions. ie, porsche, corvette zo6, etc.
3-SHIFTER/CLUTCH. shifter and clutch are iight. iight only bc, even tho there are no complaints bout the clutch, but the shifter!!!! cmon, for $80,000 they cant put in a real short shifter, like the B5 RS4 and the TANOGA??? for that much money, they should have toyguy shifters in the damn things!
4-SOUND. give me a break! maybe stock to stock the RS4 sounds better, but there is no way with either of those exhaust on a ko4'd car would the RS4 sound better than those whining turbos exploding into high rev! JUST NO WAY! not even with the RS4 with ESP off and the Sport mode on!
this is where i COMPLETELY DISAGREE with you, and until this point, i thought the rest of your review was on-point. i think all that money you spent on the bloody OVER-PRICED TOURING SPORT COMPACT is making you believe and hear things that simply are in no way conceivable.
5-BRAKING. no comment. this is where i think you really are gettin your money's worth! prolly why the car is so damn expensive too! car is STINKING HEAVY, and these 8-pots make it stop... REALLY AND SURPRISINGLY WELL!
6-INTERIOR/ERGONOMICS. of course a newer generation vehicle is goin to have its upgrades in interior ambiance and ergonomics, but the B7 interior isn't VASTLY different from the B5. in fact if you look carefully, the B7's while being more contemporary and functional, gets all of its cues from previous generations. so naturally the B7's is better, but the whole "Remember, you spend your time in the car looking, interacting, "living" with the interior that you are sitting in." this is complete ****e... while having some merit, the B5 S4 isnt that bad and when i pass you or while you are getting passed by a STGIII B5 S4, i hope that the vastly better interior, seats/ergonomics, etc hugs you, consoles you, and pats you on the back when you break down and ask yourself how a vehicle which is less than half the cost just toasted your overpriced piggy.
ok, now speaking from experience... i have driven every variation of the B5 and B7. and bottomline, as SICK and NASTY of a car the RS4 is (i mean cmon, we are all audiphiles here, no?), it is a steaming heap when you think of what you are getting for basically $80k.
the RS4 is basically an $80k touring sport compact sedan. its base model A4 2.0t is $30k. of course they are not the same car, but the reason why B5 S4 stgIII guys hate so much is bc no matter how ill the RS4 is, its a total ripoff. i mean for siginificantly less, u could get pretty much the same car in the B7 S4. same engine, non widebody, not as fancy breaks, and personally i think the dual twin tips look waaaaaaaaaaay better than the RS4 oval tips.
my bad, rambling... but yeah, and whats this diahrrea of the fingertips...
"By comparison, the modded B5 seems like just that - a hack job, pieced together, artificial.
---------hello, the a modded B5 is simply an attempt to get the car to how it should have come
with RS4 performance. so hack job? are you calling the B5 RS4 a hack job? you wanna talk about hack-jobs, how bout the B7 RS4 SEDAN? that's right i said it? car should've only come in an AVANT, just like evey REAL RS in the past. not this HACK of an AVANT, called the US version b7 RS4. and for all that money u dont even get the bloddy real steering wheel!
So...from an owner of both.....
In terms of pure driving enjoyment and satisfaction from time behind the wheel, the RS4 wins, and wins easily. It is simply a higher level of automobile, pure and simple. Let the flames come on. If the results were different, I really would have stated so."
--------SATISFACTION is when you spend less and but get more. by spending less than half the budget of the B7 RS4, you could easily make a reliable car that is faster and literally a more fun driving experience. which is what the stgIII B5 S4 is. and one of the best ever. still and will always be one of the best all around luxury hp-per-$$$ packages ever!
so is it PURE AND SIMPLE? is it a higher level of automible? i know its sure as hell more EXPENSIVE... but you tell me, for the money, and for what you get, if the RS4 is that much more satisfying. bc if u ask me, i think the personal driving experieince could never surpass the stgIIIB5. not the sound, the pinning in your seat--the PERFORMANCE. but most importantly ANY AND ALL B7's in your rear view mirror!
as proud as you are of your pseudo exotic car (its just an overpriced sport compact sedan), if you arent a real car afficionado i commend you for investing in an audi, namely the RS4. however, if you know your stuff, and have any concept of money (which i naturally find RS4 owners lack and stgiiiS4 guys have too much of), then you kno as good a car the RS4 is, it does not top a stgiii, and isnt hands down better in any way. only to yall it is bc you have to justify all the money you just spent on the car that is getting smoked by its cousin of a car which is 2 generations older(scratching head, yes... its true! and (in chris tucker voice-over) YOU KNOW THISSS... MAAAANNNN!
that is what is up.
happy holidays to all. its the Z-man, OUT!
holler!
you are right very accurate in your descriptions about 1-power, 2-handling, 3- shifter/clutch, 5- and 6-interior/erg.
ARGUMENTS:
1-POWER. UGH! all that money and you basically get the B7 S4 engine. its a solid one, but how bout the RS6 engine, or a much more aggressively tuned version of the 4.2??? for less than half the price of the RS4, you could get every top-notch part for the 2.7tt, and build your way to a faster and pretty reliable engine, again car+mods would still be less the HALF the price of the new RS4.
2-HANDLING. no arguments here cept... lol! even for a 2ton car the B7 RS4 handles incredibly! but of course, my gripe here would be, for that much money, why did they build-out a PIGGISH type of car? i mean its no w8 passat, or some other pig like that, but hundreds more lbs??? should be the other way around... like every other touring car out there! they are lighter than the std or sport versions. ie, porsche, corvette zo6, etc.
3-SHIFTER/CLUTCH. shifter and clutch are iight. iight only bc, even tho there are no complaints bout the clutch, but the shifter!!!! cmon, for $80,000 they cant put in a real short shifter, like the B5 RS4 and the TANOGA??? for that much money, they should have toyguy shifters in the damn things!
4-SOUND. give me a break! maybe stock to stock the RS4 sounds better, but there is no way with either of those exhaust on a ko4'd car would the RS4 sound better than those whining turbos exploding into high rev! JUST NO WAY! not even with the RS4 with ESP off and the Sport mode on!
this is where i COMPLETELY DISAGREE with you, and until this point, i thought the rest of your review was on-point. i think all that money you spent on the bloody OVER-PRICED TOURING SPORT COMPACT is making you believe and hear things that simply are in no way conceivable.
5-BRAKING. no comment. this is where i think you really are gettin your money's worth! prolly why the car is so damn expensive too! car is STINKING HEAVY, and these 8-pots make it stop... REALLY AND SURPRISINGLY WELL!
6-INTERIOR/ERGONOMICS. of course a newer generation vehicle is goin to have its upgrades in interior ambiance and ergonomics, but the B7 interior isn't VASTLY different from the B5. in fact if you look carefully, the B7's while being more contemporary and functional, gets all of its cues from previous generations. so naturally the B7's is better, but the whole "Remember, you spend your time in the car looking, interacting, "living" with the interior that you are sitting in." this is complete ****e... while having some merit, the B5 S4 isnt that bad and when i pass you or while you are getting passed by a STGIII B5 S4, i hope that the vastly better interior, seats/ergonomics, etc hugs you, consoles you, and pats you on the back when you break down and ask yourself how a vehicle which is less than half the cost just toasted your overpriced piggy.
ok, now speaking from experience... i have driven every variation of the B5 and B7. and bottomline, as SICK and NASTY of a car the RS4 is (i mean cmon, we are all audiphiles here, no?), it is a steaming heap when you think of what you are getting for basically $80k.
the RS4 is basically an $80k touring sport compact sedan. its base model A4 2.0t is $30k. of course they are not the same car, but the reason why B5 S4 stgIII guys hate so much is bc no matter how ill the RS4 is, its a total ripoff. i mean for siginificantly less, u could get pretty much the same car in the B7 S4. same engine, non widebody, not as fancy breaks, and personally i think the dual twin tips look waaaaaaaaaaay better than the RS4 oval tips.
my bad, rambling... but yeah, and whats this diahrrea of the fingertips...
"By comparison, the modded B5 seems like just that - a hack job, pieced together, artificial.
---------hello, the a modded B5 is simply an attempt to get the car to how it should have come
with RS4 performance. so hack job? are you calling the B5 RS4 a hack job? you wanna talk about hack-jobs, how bout the B7 RS4 SEDAN? that's right i said it? car should've only come in an AVANT, just like evey REAL RS in the past. not this HACK of an AVANT, called the US version b7 RS4. and for all that money u dont even get the bloddy real steering wheel!
So...from an owner of both.....
In terms of pure driving enjoyment and satisfaction from time behind the wheel, the RS4 wins, and wins easily. It is simply a higher level of automobile, pure and simple. Let the flames come on. If the results were different, I really would have stated so."
--------SATISFACTION is when you spend less and but get more. by spending less than half the budget of the B7 RS4, you could easily make a reliable car that is faster and literally a more fun driving experience. which is what the stgIII B5 S4 is. and one of the best ever. still and will always be one of the best all around luxury hp-per-$$$ packages ever!
so is it PURE AND SIMPLE? is it a higher level of automible? i know its sure as hell more EXPENSIVE... but you tell me, for the money, and for what you get, if the RS4 is that much more satisfying. bc if u ask me, i think the personal driving experieince could never surpass the stgIIIB5. not the sound, the pinning in your seat--the PERFORMANCE. but most importantly ANY AND ALL B7's in your rear view mirror!
as proud as you are of your pseudo exotic car (its just an overpriced sport compact sedan), if you arent a real car afficionado i commend you for investing in an audi, namely the RS4. however, if you know your stuff, and have any concept of money (which i naturally find RS4 owners lack and stgiiiS4 guys have too much of), then you kno as good a car the RS4 is, it does not top a stgiii, and isnt hands down better in any way. only to yall it is bc you have to justify all the money you just spent on the car that is getting smoked by its cousin of a car which is 2 generations older(scratching head, yes... its true! and (in chris tucker voice-over) YOU KNOW THISSS... MAAAANNNN!
that is what is up.
happy holidays to all. its the Z-man, OUT!
holler!
12-30-2006, 04:27 PM
#12
ZIZOU, are you really that ill-informed, or are you just pulling our legs?
ZIZOU, obviously you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to this engine. You wrote the two following statements that are so factually wrong I don't know where to start:
"UGH! all that money and you basically get the B7 S4 engine, its a solid one, but how bout the RS6 engine, or a much more aggressively tuned version of the 4.2???"
"u could get pretty much the same car in the B7 S4. same engine"
For the record, the only similarities between the B7 S4 V8 and the RS4 V8 are the bore, stroke, cylinder pitch, and number of cylinders. Lets compare and contrast the differences:
---------------------- B7 S4 Fuel Injected V8 ------ B7 RS4 FSI V8 ----
Here are the similarities
Bore ---------------------- 84.5 mm --------------------- 84.5 mm
Stroke -------------------- 92.8 mm --------------------- 92.8 mm
Spacing ------------------- 91 mm ----------------------- 91 mm
Displacement -------------- 4163 cc --------------------- 4163 cc
Here are the differences
Horsepower ----------- 340 @ 7000 rpm ----------- 420 HP @ 7500 rpm
Torque -------------- 302 lbs ft @ 3500 rpm ---- 317 lbs ft @ 6000 rpm
Compression Ratio --------- 11.0:1 ---------------------- 12.5:1
# Valves ------------------ 5V -------------------------- 4V
Intake Valve Diameter ----- 27 mm ----------------------- 33.85 mm
Exhaust Valve Diameter ---- 30 mm ----------------------- 28 mm
Intake Cam Drive ---------- Belt ------------------------ Chain
Exhaust Cam Drive -------- Chain ------------------------ Chain
Fuel Injection ------ Manifold Fuel Injection ------- Direct Injection
On the RS4 the following additional engine components have been modified:
Cylinder Head
Crankshaft
Pistons
Connecting rods
Intake Manifold
Exhaust Manifold
Red Line 8250 rpm
Nuff said ...
"UGH! all that money and you basically get the B7 S4 engine, its a solid one, but how bout the RS6 engine, or a much more aggressively tuned version of the 4.2???"
"u could get pretty much the same car in the B7 S4. same engine"
For the record, the only similarities between the B7 S4 V8 and the RS4 V8 are the bore, stroke, cylinder pitch, and number of cylinders. Lets compare and contrast the differences:
---------------------- B7 S4 Fuel Injected V8 ------ B7 RS4 FSI V8 ----
Here are the similarities
Bore ---------------------- 84.5 mm --------------------- 84.5 mm
Stroke -------------------- 92.8 mm --------------------- 92.8 mm
Spacing ------------------- 91 mm ----------------------- 91 mm
Displacement -------------- 4163 cc --------------------- 4163 cc
Here are the differences
Horsepower ----------- 340 @ 7000 rpm ----------- 420 HP @ 7500 rpm
Torque -------------- 302 lbs ft @ 3500 rpm ---- 317 lbs ft @ 6000 rpm
Compression Ratio --------- 11.0:1 ---------------------- 12.5:1
# Valves ------------------ 5V -------------------------- 4V
Intake Valve Diameter ----- 27 mm ----------------------- 33.85 mm
Exhaust Valve Diameter ---- 30 mm ----------------------- 28 mm
Intake Cam Drive ---------- Belt ------------------------ Chain
Exhaust Cam Drive -------- Chain ------------------------ Chain
Fuel Injection ------ Manifold Fuel Injection ------- Direct Injection
On the RS4 the following additional engine components have been modified:
Cylinder Head
Crankshaft
Pistons
Connecting rods
Intake Manifold
Exhaust Manifold
Red Line 8250 rpm
Nuff said ...
12-30-2006, 05:11 PM
#13
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out of the box.... the rs4 is superior to all stock and modified platforms, period
what i mean is spend a ton of money and i'm sure you will be faster straight line. Spend a ton of money on suspension, braking, lightening and you'll be faster around the track. Fact is, it is damn hard to beat this car overall, period. Much respect to the RS4...
12-30-2006, 07:00 PM
#15
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Just wait until the motor is well broken-in...
When you can live in the 6.500+ RPM with the close ratio 6 speed at full throttle, the memories of monster touque of the modded B5 fades very quickly. I speak from my own experience. My B6 S4 never really erased my B5, but the RS4 is another story completely.
PS: I'm @ 5,500 miles and it simply SCREAMS.
PS: I'm @ 5,500 miles and it simply SCREAMS.
12-30-2006, 07:59 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
Since you are so focused on the economics of it all, I will point out that......
The total cost of my stage 3 B5 S4, including the NEW CAR purchased in September 1999, parts and labor was $73,000, not including my $4000 audio system. Add in a little inflation and you are talking an $80,000+ vehicle in today's dollars. Please explain to me how this is so much cheaper?
12-30-2006, 09:47 PM
#18
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RI RS4, you rock: The voice of reason speaks. Listen.
I'm really not taking sides here.
I'm sure ZIZOU had something to say, I'm just not sure what it was-- I didn't read more then I needed to in order to get the gist.
But RI RS4's response was just so like the gavel coming down, I find myself just in stitches over the exchange, in a fond way for both participants, and uncontrollably, mind you.
Well done you two !
If ever there was a just cause to use that oft abused abbreviation, L-O-L !!
Love it !
I'm sure ZIZOU had something to say, I'm just not sure what it was-- I didn't read more then I needed to in order to get the gist.
But RI RS4's response was just so like the gavel coming down, I find myself just in stitches over the exchange, in a fond way for both participants, and uncontrollably, mind you.
Well done you two !
If ever there was a just cause to use that oft abused abbreviation, L-O-L !!
Love it !
12-30-2006, 10:08 PM
#19
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Thanks. One thing that I think is lost in the Modded B5 S4 is the early availability of torque in
lower rpm range. Basically the torque is increased dramatically but also available like you say more around the 3500rmp range. I will probably like the the fact that the B7 rs4 has the torque available much earlier, but I am not sure if I can live with the fact that it's around a 100ft/lbs less than the B5.
12-30-2006, 10:18 PM
#20
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My peak tq is 420 wheel at 2800 rpms and peak wheel hp is 6500 rpm at 370 on 91... not to take away
from Vijay's comparison because it is valid but development of Stage 3's has improved since he owned one.
This is the dyno chart after Revolver cams were put it.... the car needs tuning in the mid range which should happen in Jan
<img src="http://images17.fotki.com/v349/photos/6/673844/2561375/Dynoplot-vi.jpg?1160975640">
This is the dyno chart after Revolver cams were put it.... the car needs tuning in the mid range which should happen in Jan
<img src="http://images17.fotki.com/v349/photos/6/673844/2561375/Dynoplot-vi.jpg?1160975640">