Chris_Or

Happy Friday!

I hope you are all doing great! Wanted to have some discussion on Q7 competitors. As I entertained an option to upgrade to SQ7 (given todays secondary price offerings and low interest rates I get ~$48k trade in value from a dealer, KBB based), the new budget opened up a new series of contenders in EV world. I promised my wife next car will be EV and personally I started to venture to EV world as well.

What do you think of Rivian R1S? I think its a perfect competitor and has what probably Q7 lacked a bit - more space and more power. I enjoy driving my Q7 (2018 Prestige), but with 3 small children I want more space and specifically more power. Trying to steer away from minivans (very tempting though) and trying to justify the lifestyle SUVs. i guess the thought of overlanding is there, but living in NY it remains just a thought :-)

What do you guys think?

Regards,
Chris.

mhoran89

Go see if you can get in one and see it yourself... what does your wife think of it? Personally I drive too much in short spans (skiing, family travel, etc.) to be a candidate for an EV. I need the autonomy I get by using a gas pump for 3 minutes versus an electric cable for 45 minutes.

AlbertQ7

The biggest issues I see for the Rivian R1S are:
1. When will it actually be available for YOU to buy? I believe they are starting with the pickup first. which has been pushed out to Sept. The SUV follows that....assuming their timeline doesn't get pushed back again. And then how many preorders are there? I guess nobody knows, but I bet you wouldn't be able to get your hands on one until next summer. If that is not an issue, then great. But if you want something in the next few months, you SOL.
2. Charging infrastructure: What will they really have? Tesla is unbeatable currently with their supercharger network. I hope Rivian does equally as well, but it will take a long time. Currently, every other BEV out there sucks if you want to do a long trip because you are the mercy of chargers that belong to charger companies, and are often out of order or slower than advertised. Many a review of non-Tesla BEVs describe the chaos and issues with long-distance charging. My brother has a Tesla and we have road-tripped with it, and the supercharging network is incredible in comparison (and we don't have to charge for 45 minutes, BTW, and generally charge when we would have wanted to stop for a food or restroom break anyway. It does take a little longer, but he never has to stop for charging any other time, while we are visiting the gas station every week or two. Filling up 3x/month at 3-5 minutes each time (sometimes have to go out of the way to fuel up) = 108-180 minutes of time per year at the gas station fueling up. Nobody every shows that math. From Salt Lake to St George, which is 300 miles, 4.25 hours, the Tesla takes us about 20 minutes longer than the Q7 assuming a restroom and snack break. Round trip less than 3-4x/year and total fueling times is equal or better in the Tesla than in the Q7!). On the other hand, if you don't plan on trips, then that is all a moot point and you start every morning with a full charge by charging at home, so you never have to visit a gas station again. I can't wait for that day!

Only reason I don't have a BEV yet is that I use my Q7 to tow a travel trailer for camping. I'll be looking hard at the Cybertruck (despite it's appearance) if it's specs actually make using it to go camping doable.

tomaszp72

One more thing to consider. Are you willing to spend 20K every 8-10 years for new battery?

mhoran89

Just had this conversation with a commercial landscaper who said the replacement batteries in the massive ride on BEV lawn mowers are $9K a shot...

tomaszp72

This is something that will be interesting to watch. Tesla already replaced a lot of batteries, so far under warranty, but 8 years warranties are coming to an end for many. This is why Teslas or rather EV used cars are down in value not like other cares these days.

AlbertQ7

Interesting, because I think the data points to Tesla batteries doing very well in the long-run. Where have you heard that they have "already replaced a lot of batteries?" The old Nisan Leafs, on the other hand, were horrible for battery longevity but there is a world of difference between the Tesla battery tech and the Leaf's. I assume Rivian is more like Tesla there, but no way to know for sure.

Also, the OP has a 2018 and looking to upgrade. Battery longevity is a thought, but 8 years seems to be an eternity for one car for many of us on this board! Also, think of the money we spend on oil changes, spark plugs, serpentine belts, etc over 8 years....maintenance costs for BEVs are lower and if you actually keep it for 8 years, you might still come out ahead even with a battery replacement!

tomaszp72

All good points.

Looks at this video: