Dalancroft

My question would be, why pay the $$$ premium for the diesel, which takes something like 100k miles to break even, if you're only driving the car like 5k miles/year? Unless you really do plan to keep the car for 20 years. Now, for those outside salespeople or the folks commuting 60+ miles a day roundtrip, a diesel makes sense.

carkarl

I imagine someone might want TDI for the torque in all their 0-30 mph city driving, or the huge range for trips out to the country, or just because they like the idea of it. Why do we all buy Audis instead of VWs or Toyotas when they are more cost effective at any distance...?

AudioBear

If you're buying a car to break even you shouldn't buy an Audi, there are many less expensive alternatives. Diesels perform better in some ways like low end torque, and gasoline engines are better in others. I love diesels but depending on the mission and your driving style they might do nothing for someone else.

While at the price of an Audi the break-even point on fuel hardly matters, if diesels (or any car) cost more or less to maintain it could make a big difference. Multi-thousand dollar repairs can be more important than fuel costs. I'd still like to know if today's diesels have lower maintenance and repair costs--but I guess I am going to find out sooner or later since the A6 TDI is a keeper. BTW, buying diesel for a dime less than regular and getting 37.3 mpg is pretty economical compared to less efficient premium gasoline users but at 5K miles a year in a city it hardly matters. This isn't about mileage. Torque, maybe.

AudioBear

I've never measured oil temp. but coolant temp takes a 2-3 minutes longer than a comparable gasoline engine. Diesels have slightly more mass to heat (~5%?) and they produce slightly less waste heat (~10%?) so it takes a little longer to warm them up. The auxiliary heater provides heat to the interior quickly so you don't notice a difference in the interior of the car. Yes, I would say that they warm up quickly. Of course it depends on the outdoor temperature too; the colder it is the longer it takes to warm up. I know this is totally obvious but my point is if you live in South Florida and have occasional chilly mornings you won't notice much difference, while if you live in Northern Minnesota you might.

msaudiq5

and I know that majority of cars in Europe are diesels and people commute much less to work....so diesel work for them for short trips!

Redd

Pete-
A 3-mile commute is pure hell on any car, except a Tesla.
"I know this was true in the past, but does it still hold true with modern turbo diesels? People on here report that they actually warm up very quickly." The problem is, it can take 20 minutes before the engine oil has heated up long enough to "cook off" the accumulated condensate from sitting overnight, and the amount of fuel that leaks past the rings when the engine is still cold. Contaminates in engine oil just don't get cooked off until something like 15-20 minutes in the best of circumstances, so the oil must be changed much more frequently and the contaminants are busy eating metal engine surfaces in any case.
That also happens in the exhaust system. Condensates form in the entire system as hot gas hits cold metal pipe. Even if the catalytic converter gets hot enough to cleanse itself in a couple of minutes, the condensate can take over ten minutes to cook off, and if it doesn't? You can go through exhaust pipes in three years instead of ten or twelve. The only way around that is by going to a car that doesn't have "warm up" problems, like an all-electric. Or at least,the OP should be shopping for a car with a stainless steel exhaust system. I don't recall Audi boasting of that, perhaps they just forgot to boast?

For a 3-mile commute, really, a golf cart would be better.

Even without all the modern techno-twists...the Otto Cycle engine (gasoline 4-banger) was always better at constantly varying speeds and loads, while a diesel was designed and reigned supreme at simply "running all day" under constant load at constant engine speed. Which is why they took over the long-haul truck market, instead of the short-run car market.

hilld

Get an A3 e-tron, all electric and still an Audi for short commutes.

Redd

hilld-
Presumably, someone buying a car for city trips within the city, is a city dweller. And unless you're rich enough to own a private home with off-street private parking, that makes electric cars totally impractical. There's no way in hell that urban dwellers can find a secure or quick or reliable way to recharge electric cars.

So much like the Stanley Steamer, the electric car may be a great piece of technology, but for city dwellers? They will never be anything except a niche toy, until the car makers figure out how to install electric sockets all the way around the block, every block, so you can still park it anywhere and still have it charged.

Or perhaps, like the dairy farms, just send around the milkman, with a load of new batteries.(G)

hilld

Tell that to Tesla, they are basing the entire business model that you can drive an all electric car coast to coast with fast charging stations and battery swap outs. I work for a large computer company and even in our parking lot we have charging stations for electric vehicles several of them as a matter of fact and there are always cars tethered to the charging stations.

I am not saying electric cars are right for everyone, certainly not me, but for those that have short commutes and need a car to drive to and from work, trips to the grocery store, etc, it might be the perfect car. Many electric cars have ranges over 200 miles, so even the occasional longer trip can be achieve.

Redd

Tesla? Still hasn't made a profit, still is highly speculative.

Your employer may have a parking lot, but that just puts you in the suburbs, or a "less than first tier" city. Look at Boston, NY, Chicago, DC...keep looking, employers don't have company parking lots very often. Yes, Tesla has cut some deals with big garage chains, but that's still a drop in the ocean. Yes, they have charging stations on the interstates...but they still haven't settled a lawsuit they brought against a NYTimes reporter two years ago, after he wrote up just how realistic the range on his borrowed Tesla was.
Remember, a 200 mile range means 100 each way--and that's if you can be sure you won't be delayed. From NYC to DC on I95 may be a four hour trip, oops, how long do I have to wait for a supercharger in Baltimore? Or was that Philly? And when that four hour trip routinely becomes six hours because someone had a wreck or a fire...I'd hate to think of how many delays I have been in, or just missed, on I95 alone.
A 200-mile range is nice for a station wagon, you only need to fuel it once a week while commuting to the rr station. But seriously, for road trips? Or the folks who routinely do a 30-45 minute commute and have no fast charge access in between?
Maybe you heard, Tesla's sales forecasts went up the opium pipe, again.
I give them credit for many things, but realistic economics? No, show me three consecutive years of the profit they still haven't turned in any one quarter, and then I'll believe there's a niche for them to fill.
At eighty grand and up, really, shouldn't the elves come to recharge it? Silently, in the night? And shouldn't they send me an Uber car, to complete my ride when the supercharger station isn't available?
That's one thing I love about my Q5. The gas tank is significantly larger than my bladder.(G)