Shawn99/30V

Those cars are about 10 years old...are you kidding me

HPH

Hi, gang -- I've not been around because, down here in Florida, AWD just isn't as important as it is in ski country. But I'm planning a move soon back to Colorado, and the Q5 looks like a good combination of features and capabilities. Now that Audi doesn't have an allroad available, the Q5 seems like the next best bet.

But I'm curious about that Q5/X3 roller comparison. On the surface, the X3 won hands down. What's up with that? Is the BMW center diff that much better? Were they cheating with a diff lock-up or something?

After 7 Audis in my earlier Colorado days, I appreciate truly functional AWD systems (meaning: those "active" ones from Honda and Toyota and even MB are just dumb). But that roller demo was impressive. Am I missing something? HPH

Ed@mtl

It's sponsor by BMW. What do you think?

HPH

Maybe I asked the wrong question -- of course I noticed that it was sponsored by BMW.

So: What did I miss? How did they cheat? Or is X-drive just better? HPH

Ed@mtl

As someone mention on another forum:

"Q5 has a centre torsen differential which is an open differential Torsen itself is pretty awesome - no electronics involved and torque transfer is instant, but it's an open diff so if there's one axle w/ zero friction it'll spin away. You can put an A4 on there and get the same result.

If ESP is left on, the brakes will be applied to the front wheels to redirect torque to the rear wheels. Other ways to combat this is to slightly do left foot braking if there's no traction control on the vehicle. So looks like ESP/traction control was disabled on the Q5 for this demonstration. I've always been a bit suspicious of BMW's test drive events as there was a comparison between the 5 series and A6 and the A6 slid off the slick part of the test and there was no feeling of the ABS system kicking in or anything.

In the end, it's a moot point but it's something that BMW will continue to use to show off their x-drive system."

More comments can be read here:
http://forums.quattroworld.com/canada/msgs/43489.phtml

HPH

Ah.

One of my 1990s Audis -- maybe the second-gen 90 or the very first A4 -- had, like its predecessors, a center diff lock button. I expect that option would have sent the Q5 bounding forward on either set of wheels.

This was before ESP and all of its variants (which, even in the allroad, I never liked). Nowadays, with all the different electronic control systems, it's hard to tell how actual drive train components (front/center/rear differentials in particular) actually perform. Perhaps that BMW promo was not testing systems evenly -- as suggested in that ...Canada... thread. Thanks. HPH

Shawn99/30V

BMW only make RWD if it's 2WD

It's about 250 lbs more

It's not really about more maintenance but it's more about more things could break.

Mitch105

A little off topic but thought I'd mention since we are comparing awd systems. Purchased a new 4motion Tiguan for wife a couple months back. Anyway, it is WAY better in snow than my B8 A4. I know, I know it is haldex vs. quattro torsen, but say what you will....up here in snowy Canada the Tiguan kills my A4. Not that the A4 is bad, but the Tiguan is sooo stable, less slide, less slip and less bothered by snowy roads. And I can tell you first hand this "reactive" versus "active" business may be true in a Honda, but not this VW. I drive both cars regularly and can tell you it is imperceptible to tell the difference between the functioning of quattro versus 4motion as far when it is working or where it is working. In fact 4motion seems to work better. Flame suit....

Shawn99/30V

Difference is probably the tires. Tiguan uses all weather tires and your A4 is more for performance.

HPH

Actually, it is on topic for me. Shortly before I left the intermountain west for the ...um... flats of Florida, I had a bit of a mid-life crisis and got myself a Subaru STi (note precise designation, which was switched to STI after my model year). I tweaked it up in power another 10% and got my jollies.

It had the "Driver Controllable Center Differential," a very cool feature IMO. Still, the feel of its viscous coupled center diff compared to the Audi mechanical system in my allroad was obvious. Until I got used to the lag of the viscous power transfer, it always seemed sluggish in snow compared to the Torsen coupling.

I think that the Haldex system in VWs and in several Audis probably has this same difference. It's not bad, it's just different. Once I got used to the Subaru system, I grew to like it a lot.

What I'm suspicious of are those newer electronic systems that "sense" slip and "transfer power on demand." It's clear that the Honda system, for example, sucks. And if the BWM system sucks, too, so be it. No doubt that Audi, in the past ten years, has improved the mechanical version of Quattro significantly. HPH