Pulling a camper
08-23-2012, 03:24 AM
#41
AudiWorld Member
Excellent CrustyNoodle! I just ordered the male plug for that connector for a clean install and I ordered the Tekonsha P3 brake controller. I have an idea of where I can mount to hide the unit ... I'll know tomorrow when the P3 arrives if it will fit in the spot I'm thinking.
Did you perform this install also? Once I'm done I'll update our Trailer install doc to include this install and where I end up mounting the unit.
For those interested in the OEM plug, the part number is 1J0972 782 and here in Canada it sells for $6.50.
Did you perform this install also? Once I'm done I'll update our Trailer install doc to include this install and where I end up mounting the unit.
For those interested in the OEM plug, the part number is 1J0972 782 and here in Canada it sells for $6.50.
I don't have the brake controller as I don't regularly tow a van or anything else requiring it. The only heavy towing I have done is with a car carrier and car on board. These are hired trailers and only have hydraulic surge type brakes. The 3.0TDI pulls them like a champ though!
08-23-2012, 07:47 AM
#42
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No probs. Ponch,
I don't have the brake controller as I don't regularly tow a van or anything else requiring it. The only heavy towing I have done is with a car carrier and car on board. These are hired trailers and only have hydraulic surge type brakes. The 3.0TDI pulls them like a champ though!
I don't have the brake controller as I don't regularly tow a van or anything else requiring it. The only heavy towing I have done is with a car carrier and car on board. These are hired trailers and only have hydraulic surge type brakes. The 3.0TDI pulls them like a champ though!
08-24-2012, 06:21 AM
#44
AudiWorld Senior Member
Crusty,
The trailers you use, where is the axles on length wise? About middle of the bed like in Europe or further back like in US?
European cars don't use WD hitches as there the trailers have axles on middle of the bed and proper load location allows to control the tongue load.
US haves axles further back causing far higher tongue load and that is the reason here with most trailers we have to use WD.
I had hard time to find US trailer that had axles on middle of the bed so by load location I could control the tongue load and I wouldn't need the WD bandage over the load balancing problem.
Excessive tongue load serves what purpose?
and yes, I agree WD is not meant for the unibody vehicles as the back wall of the trunk will take the torsion force WD causes to hitch mounting-trunk back wall point and those bolts.
Pickups and bigger suv's with own frame is another story....
The trailers you use, where is the axles on length wise? About middle of the bed like in Europe or further back like in US?
European cars don't use WD hitches as there the trailers have axles on middle of the bed and proper load location allows to control the tongue load.
US haves axles further back causing far higher tongue load and that is the reason here with most trailers we have to use WD.
I had hard time to find US trailer that had axles on middle of the bed so by load location I could control the tongue load and I wouldn't need the WD bandage over the load balancing problem.
Excessive tongue load serves what purpose?
and yes, I agree WD is not meant for the unibody vehicles as the back wall of the trunk will take the torsion force WD causes to hitch mounting-trunk back wall point and those bolts.
Pickups and bigger suv's with own frame is another story....
Last edited by kleinbus; 08-24-2012 at 06:24 AM.
08-24-2012, 08:49 AM
#45
AudiWorld Senior Member
KB, good point, didn't know there was a difference in trailer design there, but makes sense since the smaller roads in a lot of the older towns would dictate smaller loads...
a guess here:
having too LITTLE tongue weight via improper loading is like signing a death wish - the trailer will LIFT the rear wheels off the ground if loaded improperly and/or if hitting the wrong kind of bump/dip....
thus the higher tongue loads here with the typically heavier trailers towed here...
and since the gooberment infers most americans are stoopid and can't load properly, they always over think it
a guess here:
having too LITTLE tongue weight via improper loading is like signing a death wish - the trailer will LIFT the rear wheels off the ground if loaded improperly and/or if hitting the wrong kind of bump/dip....
thus the higher tongue loads here with the typically heavier trailers towed here...
and since the gooberment infers most americans are stoopid and can't load properly, they always over think it
08-24-2012, 09:44 AM
#46
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KB, good point, didn't know there was a difference in trailer design there, but makes sense since the smaller roads in a lot of the older towns would dictate smaller loads...
a guess here:
having too LITTLE tongue weight via improper loading is like signing a death wish - the trailer will LIFT the rear wheels off the ground if loaded improperly and/or if hitting the wrong kind of bump/dip....
thus the higher tongue loads here with the typically heavier trailers towed here...
and since the gooberment infers most americans are stoopid and can't load properly, they always over think it
a guess here:
having too LITTLE tongue weight via improper loading is like signing a death wish - the trailer will LIFT the rear wheels off the ground if loaded improperly and/or if hitting the wrong kind of bump/dip....
thus the higher tongue loads here with the typically heavier trailers towed here...
and since the gooberment infers most americans are stoopid and can't load properly, they always over think it
Oh and my plug for the break controller came in ... it's an empty plug and I need to order the wires and the rubber gromits for that connector ... just a warning for anyone else looking to order the OEM parts.
08-24-2012, 09:56 AM
#47
AudiWorld Senior Member
Actually no
3500 kg towing limit is mandatory for these suv vehicle weigths in Europe no matter was is Mitsubishi Pajero, Toyota Land Cruiser, Nissan Patrol, Land Rover, Range Rover, Mercedes G, VW Touareg, Porsche Cayenne.
In EU to tow something heavier than 3500 kg trailers, you need actual truck (not American pickups)
I have European CDL and I have American CDL and I have worked most of my life with "rubber tire" tarnsportation industry designing trucks and trailers (excluding some years experiment with Paper & Pulp industry and actual paper machines).
The main difference between European trailers and trailer campers is that there the axle(s) are always in middle of body so the trailer can be towed with awd station vagon or suv as there is small positive tongue load and whole approach relies on the drivers responsibility to know how to load properly.
Don't forget that towing speed limit in EU is 55 mph!!!!
Here in States on the other hand, the bridge laws and other axle load laws from 18-wleeres seems to flow down to smaller trailers and somehow the huge tongue load is desired? I haven't figured out why as it's not freaking 5th wheel.
European cars towing limit is limited to 3500 kg (about 7700 lbs) by law and it is not just by structural design.
Here is more reading about to tongue loads on other forum and I have no desire to write that stuff again...
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f6...ght-71801.html
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f6...-48603-17.html
Last edited by kleinbus; 08-24-2012 at 09:52 PM.
08-25-2012, 01:48 AM
#48
AudiWorld Member
Crusty,
The trailers you use, where is the axles on length wise? About middle of the bed like in Europe or further back like in US?
European cars don't use WD hitches as there the trailers have axles on middle of the bed and proper load location allows to control the tongue load.
US haves axles further back causing far higher tongue load and that is the reason here with most trailers we have to use WD.
I had hard time to find US trailer that had axles on middle of the bed so by load location I could control the tongue load and I wouldn't need the WD bandage over the load balancing problem.
Excessive tongue load serves what purpose?
and yes, I agree WD is not meant for the unibody vehicles as the back wall of the trunk will take the torsion force WD causes to hitch mounting-trunk back wall point and those bolts.
Pickups and bigger suv's with own frame is another story....
The trailers you use, where is the axles on length wise? About middle of the bed like in Europe or further back like in US?
European cars don't use WD hitches as there the trailers have axles on middle of the bed and proper load location allows to control the tongue load.
US haves axles further back causing far higher tongue load and that is the reason here with most trailers we have to use WD.
I had hard time to find US trailer that had axles on middle of the bed so by load location I could control the tongue load and I wouldn't need the WD bandage over the load balancing problem.
Excessive tongue load serves what purpose?
and yes, I agree WD is not meant for the unibody vehicles as the back wall of the trunk will take the torsion force WD causes to hitch mounting-trunk back wall point and those bolts.
Pickups and bigger suv's with own frame is another story....
I don't have a trailer hitch scale but I do have a tape measure, can balance on a tow ball and know my own weight - if you get my drift.
In Aus. the general rule of thumb w.r.t. nose weight is the same as they use in the States but the trailers I use are able to be balanced appropriately for my vehicle. I suppose if I wanted to get a van, I'd have to look a bit harder.
08-25-2012, 04:03 AM
#49
AudiWorld Senior Member
CN, if I'm looking at your pics correctly, it looks like the rear trailer tire has more load than the front does...
maybe that's just a diff in air pressure, but that seems to indicate the trailer load isn't balanced on the trailer IMHO...
I'm sure you've taken care to balance it, but that's what it looks like...
The reason it's different here in the states is because it's different - neither one is wrong
I remember towing with my nice CJ5 back in the late 80's and since it would climb a tree figured it could tow a trailer of household stuff when we moved...
my young and dumb friends and I rented a 20 foot box trailer and they hooked it up...
UNLOADED the trailer was really more than the CJ SHOULD have towed...
loaded with refrigerators, etc. and coming down I-35E in Dallas I hit a couple of dips and humps that without a LOT of luck and corrections could have been a disaster.
While I did balance it well (I thought) the roads undulations UNbalanced it quickly and the trailer tongue bounced the rear of the jeep all over two lanes before I got it slowed... I do recall that most of the issue was the trailer LIFTED the rear tires of the jeep off the ground and bump steered it to the side.
My then 4 year old son with me even squealed "Whee Daddy, let's do that again!!!"
So TOO light tongue weights in many cases are worse than too much.
Gotta run, going to do some tweaking on our 15k 5th wheel rv for a month long trip in Oct! Oh, it's pin weight is 2500+ lbs
maybe that's just a diff in air pressure, but that seems to indicate the trailer load isn't balanced on the trailer IMHO...
I'm sure you've taken care to balance it, but that's what it looks like...
The reason it's different here in the states is because it's different - neither one is wrong
I remember towing with my nice CJ5 back in the late 80's and since it would climb a tree figured it could tow a trailer of household stuff when we moved...
my young and dumb friends and I rented a 20 foot box trailer and they hooked it up...
UNLOADED the trailer was really more than the CJ SHOULD have towed...
loaded with refrigerators, etc. and coming down I-35E in Dallas I hit a couple of dips and humps that without a LOT of luck and corrections could have been a disaster.
While I did balance it well (I thought) the roads undulations UNbalanced it quickly and the trailer tongue bounced the rear of the jeep all over two lanes before I got it slowed... I do recall that most of the issue was the trailer LIFTED the rear tires of the jeep off the ground and bump steered it to the side.
My then 4 year old son with me even squealed "Whee Daddy, let's do that again!!!"
So TOO light tongue weights in many cases are worse than too much.
Gotta run, going to do some tweaking on our 15k 5th wheel rv for a month long trip in Oct! Oh, it's pin weight is 2500+ lbs
08-25-2012, 10:02 AM
#50
AudiWorld Senior Member
Crusty,
Your trailer and axle location looks same what I pulled back in Europe and the Toyota Camry vagon? Seems to be just like I would do. By looking trailer from side and the middle of 2 axles is the balance point of the bed (technically the A-tow arm structure would be the mass for tongue load) and your load balancing, the back of vagon compensates the heavier front with engine.
To make it more complicated, trailer suspension matters as well, if the trailer haves 2 independent rubber torsion axles, it is critical to have correct towbar to keep the loaded trailer lengthwise horizontally level as there is no equalizer between the axles.
If trailer suspension is real springs with equalizer between the axles, the trailer suspension characteristics is not as depended on the horizontal angle.
Rubber torsion suspension is POS when trailer is empty as each individual axle transmits the road bumps to trailer and to hitch while spring with equalizer absorbs most of it.
Your trailer and axle location looks same what I pulled back in Europe and the Toyota Camry vagon? Seems to be just like I would do. By looking trailer from side and the middle of 2 axles is the balance point of the bed (technically the A-tow arm structure would be the mass for tongue load) and your load balancing, the back of vagon compensates the heavier front with engine.
To make it more complicated, trailer suspension matters as well, if the trailer haves 2 independent rubber torsion axles, it is critical to have correct towbar to keep the loaded trailer lengthwise horizontally level as there is no equalizer between the axles.
If trailer suspension is real springs with equalizer between the axles, the trailer suspension characteristics is not as depended on the horizontal angle.
Rubber torsion suspension is POS when trailer is empty as each individual axle transmits the road bumps to trailer and to hitch while spring with equalizer absorbs most of it.
Last edited by kleinbus; 08-25-2012 at 10:12 AM.