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Euro delivery--Autobahnen and road overview, then subthreads below

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Old 07-27-2013, 03:11 AM
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Default Euro delivery--Autobahnen and road overview, then subthreads below

I still plan to write a thread about the Euro delivery itself, but meanwhile thought I would share some on road experience here.

We have been southwest to Lucerne, Switz. from Ingolstadt + Munich and now headed east via Innsbruck and Salzburg to Vienna. Last night we passed the 1000 mile full break in point.

On the road, Germany has the fabled unlimited Autobahnen still, in a lot of areas. In practice, there is a lot of road (re) construction in the summer, and speed limits and congestion near cities. Photo radar is prevalent both in Germany and elsewhere, so especially if you don't know the roads from experience, you tend to follow the speed signs carefully when they apply. It takes good attention, and they change dramatically (like unlimited down to 80 or even 60 kph in quick steps. The factory Nav. does not work in Europe, but Audi lends you a Garmin if the car came w/ Nav. like ours. That helps w/ the speed limit display update too.

In Switzerland, the top Autobahn speed is 120 kph (around 75 mph). It steps up to 130 kph (81 mph) in Austria, but then they regulate night driving speeds to 100-110 kph via changeable signs a lot. Like Germany, lots of changes in speeds over a multi hour drive, and need to be attentive. By day, scenery great of course, especially since we have been mostly in Bavaria and the Alpine and lake regions so far.

On the road, we see a lot of Audis, no matter where we are. Honestly, not as many Benzes as in the past. Even in Bavaria, Audi's seem as or even more prevalent than BMW's, even in Munich. Wagons are common as expected... as are sedans and small hatches...but SUV's are here to stay too. A fair number of Q7's, but more Q5's even though it hasn't been around as long. A lot of Q3's too, especially in the cities. Nice looking vehicle by me; kind of a cleaned up, yet wider Mini with more Autobahn style to it. Yep, lots of debadging here too, and often on the more powerful stuff if you know how the exhausts vary and are often the give away from bona fide to poser.

Below are some sub threads to keep lengths more manageable, and topics (and any replies) more focused.
Old 07-27-2013, 03:28 AM
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Default So, what about break in "Autobahn" style and those MPGs in a Hybrid?

Mileage and break in: both interesting, and relatively unique to anything remotely practical to do in the U.S. We completed the 1000 miles last night, and I have filled it three times. First was just a top up shortly after delivery to have a known full starting point doing it the way I normally would, rather than a machine at the factory. Then I filled it right at the Austrian border, both to have a lot on hand for longer runs but also knowing the speed conditions would be changing. Filled it again, exiting Switzerland--to use up currency with their Franc, with slightly cheaper gas there (VAT meaningfully lower there), and to then separate driving conditions from current leg in Austria. Car still had range to go in all cases.

Results:
  • First run in Germany: 344.1 miles, indicated 20.8 MPG, actual 19.39 MPG (trip odometer/liters on pump receipt, all converted to MPG's). A 67.16L/17.74 gallon fill, into the slightly smaller approx. 19 gallon Hybrid tank. Indicated road speed average of only 65 kph (40 mph). BTW, the results mean an error on the displayed MPG of 7.21% optimistic; why it's important to check the "real numbers" by pulling the fuel data off the pump and the odometer. Will calibrate that later w/ VAG COM when back in U.S. and with about 10 tanks of data. See below on the obvious WHY SO LOW MPG's, especially on a Hybrid.
  • Second run in Switzerland: 343.3 miles, but much lower 47.57L/12.56 gallon fill. Higher 70 kph/43 mph ave. indicated speed. But, wait for the details for what already looks counterintuitive in the data. Indicated 26.4 ave. mpg, but actual calculated mpg of 27.32 mpg, so this time a favorable error of 3.35%.

So, what's going on? It nets to some of the "fun" in Germany, and a unique ability to simultaneously do a "by the book" and "drive it like you stole it" break in. I took it easy on the Autobahnen at first. In CA where I live, pre radar and now especially laser on highways, you might max at 80-85MPH max in practice. Now it's maybe 75-80 max with eyes constantly watching for radar and now laser stuff, and very few interstates permit more than 65MPH. I did Euro delivery in 1985 with an Audi 5000. It had "only" 115 HP, but was one of the most streamlined cars Cd wise on the road. Then we ran at about 95-105MPH commonly, on then almost all unlimited speed Autobahns. Back then, break in also was no more than 75MPH for first 300 miles; that was PAINFUL in Germany. The car could do just over 120, and you rarely saw anything over about 110 and a lot of stuff down at 75MPH in the right lane. We put 5,500 miles on it in for weeks, so I got comfortable with the driving culture here.

In today's Autobahn world, the speed limits come up a lot, and most anything beyond a Smart car (which can do up to about 93; ask me how I know...) can hit them. Thus many cars move near the limit if there is one. But also, VERY few truly rocket in the open areas. Max I have seen is maybe something at about 140MPH go by (an RS5 or two, a Merc SLS). Meanwhile for us, we operated a lot in the more open areas at 160-180 kph, with a sweet spot at about 170-175 (105 to just under 110). And, yes we did this right in the break in period. And even with the Hybrid that has no tachometer at all, unique among any Audi I've owned since my 1973 100LS. Yet, I did it "by the book," or even the more conservative factory guy's guidance. Book says don't exceed 2/3 max RPM as I recall (call that 4000+), while delivery guy said hold it to half. None mention speeds. So we threaded this needle. I have yet to "stomp" it, and only started pushing the revs a bit yesterday entering the Autobahns a few times from short ramps. Basically, you just slowly ramp up the speed, just listening to be sure it stays in 8th, or at most kicks down to 7th. Not hard here w/ the traffic and driving norms. Also, turns out with the frequent construction, the off and on speed limits, getting stuck at times in the slow lane waiting to pull out to pass and so on, your speed really does vary constantly and a lot, just like the book break in procedure.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum, Germany also had INTENSE commute traffic several times. As bad as anything in SF Bay area commutes in worst areas (now among top in country), if not the LA mess. Thus, there were many times we were just crawling for most of an hour. Hence, the low average speed you see in the first tank data, even though the Autobahn periods were also lengthy and sustained--another round trip to Ingolstadt, down to Garmisch, etc. And even w/ a Hybrid, many times in the city traffic mess I could see on the display the battery ran through its extra juice and the motor restarted. If traffic is lighter, indeed it can and does go the mile and a half or so at decent city or suburban speeds on the battery if you are gentle on gas (to avoid motor kicking in), and brakes (to maximize decel charging w/ out using friction brakes).

Then move to Switzerland: net, less intense city traffic, and also speed regulated to 120kph so no more long runs way up at 170-180kph. Notice the huge step up in MPG's, from 19+ to 27+. So much so I didn't even post earlier when someone asked and I could tell the first tank would be at low MPG's, but you need to hear the subtle stuff about speed differences and then see a much better result when the conditions change a lot.

Preliminarily, we actually saw yet better so far on the display in Austria (28MPG+), even though Autobahn speed limit nominally goes from 120 to 130kph. But in practice, they regulate it at night to 100-110 depending on the area, and we also were in a lot of many-mile tunnels and also construction areas at 80kph. Many of the miles so far on the current tank were in those conditions.

I'll report more later. More Austria results against the 130kph/81MPH context--that and Switzerland are probably decent U.S. "spirited" driving metrics. And then more on Germany as we run from Vienna to Berlin and then west. Plus, we will be beyond the first several hundred miles which may have impacted our data further with the higher wear in friction.
Old 07-27-2013, 03:36 AM
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Default BTW, what's that oil (non) consumption look like Autobahn style during break in?

Easy: Nichts, zilch, nothing, nada. Period.

Checked screen on delivery at Ingolstadt with 34+ test miles: 100% full. Checked screen at each tank fill: full. Checked this morning at 1000 miles + to date : 100% full. Read the thread if you want to see the speed variances too, way beyond anything in the U.S.

For reference, a 2013 2.0T Hybrid. Thus, not the new and maybe improved 2014 design for the 2.0T. The Hybrid remains with the "prior" gas part of the motor just like all 2.0T's from 2013 and before.

Oh yeah, get this. At any filling station right on the racks outside you can buy various flavors of 502/505 top tier oil (Castrol Euro, etc.) all day long. Same for the TDI oil. But, it costs...$30+ per liter. Wow! Same in a store or two a saw it at as well, so it's not some roadside mark up.
Old 07-27-2013, 03:49 AM
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Default "Fog" lights in Europe, when not needed?

A pet peeve of mine in the U.S. In the SF Bay Area, people can't seem to resist turning them on, even more so the SUV's. Screws up night vision actually. Since there are tons of Toyotas in NorCal with the permanent on switch the Germans killed years ago now, they are on incessantly on vehicles like that too, rain or shine, and virtually never real fog.

So, how about here? We have been out a fair amount evenings, especially on a lengthy cross German countries drive last night. Clear nights, zero fog--it's summer and hot!

Germany: hardly ever saw them on, city or Autobahn. Like count em on one hand or less. Like in the U.S., I've seen a few Merc's where the combo running and fog LED lights seem bright, and suspect there might be some kind of mod going on.

Switzerland: like Germany. They also turn there headlights on more by day, even w/ DRL's. Makes the Q5 hidden function of the headlight switch more useful, where full shut off occurs if you leave the car.

Austria: Wow, like 5-10% use them. Seems odd for Euro norms. And, we were on the same Autobahn into Germany an hour later where the fog lights disappeared again, so it must be some Austrian specific thing or lesser enforcement.
Old 07-27-2013, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MP4.2+6.0
A pet peeve of mine in the U.S. In the SF Bay Area, people can't seem to resist turning them on, even more so the SUV's. Screws up night vision actually. Since there are tons of Toyotas in NorCal with the permanent on switch the Germans killed years ago now, they are on incessantly on vehicles like that too, rain or shine, and virtually never real fog.
Not just in the Bay; everywhere in this country, because people think it's "cool" to have them and try and "show off". People will also angle their fogs up and replace the bulbs with higher-temp ones so they get rather blinding, too. Fog lights are required to point down, people, because they are supposed to light up the road right in front of you and not glare back at you....
Old 07-27-2013, 07:02 AM
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Thanks for the write-up. Lots of good info.

Sounds like an awesome trip!
Old 07-27-2013, 09:26 AM
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Default How it drives at German speeds...

First, car is on factory 235/55-19s. It came with the Michelin tire fitment. Looks a bit "truck" to me from my Audi sedan years; it will be the wife's ride going forward. We have three adults on board, about 150-200 pounds of "stuff," and the factory bars in back. Note to Audi: please make the bars a port installed deal; a huge hassle to lug them around inside and try to fit w/ lots of luggage. Could put them on, but then bye-bye a bunch more MPG's at speed.

Q5 is very smooth. As I expected generally; my A8 is on 275/35's in 20s, while my old A6 is on 255/45's currently in 17's. Arguably the Q5 is close to the A8 for simple ride plushness, though the A8 has the full air suspension that soaks up a lot. I have it fit with S8 level roll bars which does make it stiffer. On the other hand, obviously the A8 is a whole different class dynamically.

For general Q5 purposes at speed, figure it's a 2.0T gas (through 2013 HP level), but with some Hybrid tweaks that put it closer to the 3.0T chassis wise, as the TDI is/will be. Since I'm not pushing it so far up to full revs or full throttle, I'm not really using the extra HP and (especially) torque boost combo of the electric and gas motors together. Thus the "performance" descriptions here are closer to 2.0T. The tweaks that make it somewhat a blend toward a 3.0T or TDI include the greater weight (probably biased a bit more to rear given where battery is), but also the larger 3.0T/TDI brake sizing fitment. I think all the Q5's may share a similar larger roll bar, though if the V6's have a larger set up, I can speculate the Hybrid may well too; from my A8 experience with the W12 the bars get uprated as the weight goes up, even in a non sport package. I can't find good online parts listings yet for 2013 to really run this down.

As far as the "speed" part, on the one hand it remains crisp and precise. Just what you expect of an Autobahn cruiser. At any US speeds it is quiet, though not all the way to where my A8 W12 is, which also has acoustic glass and is very well insulated generally given the premium build; even has full underbody panels stock to really smooth out air. As the Q5 gets up to about 95MPH, the wind noise becomes obvious, and even more so up at 110. These are many, many mile runs too with sustained speed just up and down gradually, not the "do I dare" quick blast stuff in the U.S. The lateral wind buffeting is noticeable too, particular above about 90. Not dangerous in any way, but you think about it and keep a steady hand on things. Welcome to SUV's, vans and even big wagons from prior experiences. So far the peak has been up around 185 kph, or about 115 mph. Choosing a speed has been more a just what feels comfortable and safe w/ the conditions, not any attempt at full speed runs. At about 110 the wife starts to give me some looks too, even in pretty darn straight areas...

Acceleration wise in traffic, no issues, and if anything I've babied it w/ the no high revs during break in. Even up at 185kph, it's not running out of oomph yet. Back in 1985, we eventually got to 122 mph in the C3 Audi 5000 (5 banger with a rare 5 speed stick), but it took several miles and climbed very slowly north of 115. That was only 115HP, though with a sleeker body than the Q5 even back then (Cd < = .30, a class setter back then). A guess is it will bounce against the speed limiter pretty easily, but we haven't been near there so far.

Brake wise, again I haven't pushed it generally. At one point, I did get close to an exit w/out realizing, and had to haul down very fast from 110 or so, and be sure I could make a hard right cloverleaf before I fully committed to not just overrunning the exit instead. Classic autobahn mistake actually, and it reminded me of the speed scrub down need. Some antilock kick in, but performed just as planned and then I completed the turn now fully in the offramp lane.

Net, all good so far. Quite satisfied with conditions I will never even get to explore responsibly for the rest of its life.

Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 07-27-2013 at 09:36 AM.
Old 07-27-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MP4.2+6.0
On the road, Germany has the fabled unlimited Autobahnen still, in a lot of areas. In practice, there is a lot of road (re) construction in the summer, and speed limits and congestion near cities. Photo radar is prevalent both in Germany and elsewhere, so especially if you don't know the roads from experience, you tend to follow the speed signs carefully when they apply. It takes good attention, and they change dramatically (like unlimited down to 80 or even 60 kph in quick steps. The factory Nav. does not work in Europe, but Audi lends you a Garmin if the car came w/ Nav. like ours. That helps w/ the speed limit display update too.
I picked up a Q5 2.0T euro delivery on June 25 and dropped it off on July 8. I totally agree with your comments on the German autobahn. Although I got up to 120mph, I didn't stay at that speed long. Most of my driving was between 85-95mph, but there were always either posted speed limits, the road narrows, construction zones, or slower traffic trying to pass that occur about every 10-15 minutes, forcing a reduction in speed. One has to always stay alert - I found it very tiring.

On the otherhand, I was also in France and I prefer driving there. At least on the autoroutes that I were on, there was little construction, so it was easy to maintain the speed limit of 78mph (130km/h) for a long time. The downside is paying the tolls.
Old 07-27-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MP4.2+6.0
Note to Audi: please make the bars a port installed deal; a huge hassle to lug them around inside and try to fit w/ lots of luggage. Could put them on, but then bye-bye a bunch more MPG's at speed.
Also got the bars at delivery. Didn't expect them and since the back was full with luggage, I had to put them on the floor of the back seats during the whole trip. At dropoff, I decided not to install them for fear that they will be damaged during shipment. So I left them in the back, took a picture of them, and hope they show up when the car arrives at the dealer.

What do you plan to do with the bars at dropoff?
Old 07-27-2013, 07:23 PM
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[QUOTE=Q5forWife;24469812]I picked up a Q5 2.0T euro delivery on June 25 and dropped it off on July 8. I totally agree with your comments on the German autobahn. Although I got up to 120mph, I didn't stay at that speed long. Most of my driving was between 85-95mph, but there were always either posted speed limits, the road narrows, construction zones, or slower traffic trying to pass that occur about every 10-15 minutes, forcing a reduction in speed. One has to always stay alert - I found it very tiring.

I had the identical experience with my March euro delivery. Was only able to get it up to 120 mph as well. I think you must have to get out in more rural areas in order to max it out.


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