Coast2Coast

I decided to rebuild the head after realizing one day that my phase position was >10° (10.3-10.6). I installed all new timing chains guides, sprocket, oil chain, tensioner. I slapped everything together and my marks were on point. Then I think, during the 4 turns of the crank when you switch the cam lobe alignment tool to outside middle and outside, that I jumped a tooth because I would measure my distance from intake side and it would be like high 50's(58...) the exhaust side number had grown, however they both maintained the 124.4mm between marks. I was perplexed by this and ultimately decided that since distance between them was good, then maybe my crank pulley wasn't officially at tdc and that was the reason to my measurements being off. Once I fire it up I noticed that my phase position was at 7.65° . Any ideas what might have gone wrong and how to resolve it. If it's the intake side that's adjusting the 7° then if I only move the intake side with the chain off, that would in turn throw off my between marks measurement. That equates to a little more than 1 tooth of the gear. I appreciate any input because I am kinda lost on this one I hate to admit.
I havent taken off the chain yet or disassembled anything so I can still get some readings from obdeleven pro if anyone finds that they need more data to toss in their input

Coast2Coast

Bump
Wtf is the point of being in a forum then if out of 65+ people that looked at my post, not 1 person can chime in. I thought the whole reason behind these things are to support each other as we all share a common interests.

Q5-3.0

We're thinking...

82DMC12

My dude, first of all my condolences for a confusing repair. Been there before. However, this is the Q5 discussion forum and I bet 99% of the people on here, no offense to them, know basically nothing beyond oil changes, brakes, fluid changes and messing around with OBDeleven. You're talking about deep engine work which, 20 years ago, was already difficult for the average DIY'er to get a handle on. Even worse now. Maybe try the Technical Discussion>Engines forum where you might get a bit better luck. I think VAG-COM has a forum which seems to attract more mechanical type people, too. Good luck and I really hope you figure it out soon. Hope you can report back what the solution was.

Petr1976

What I would do is start over. Why try to guess and jump a tooth when you don't know if that is the cause? Tear it back down and make sure your marks line up so you don't create more issues.

silver_tt

Very sorry to hear about your troubles. I just went through the timing job myself -- studied up on it but decided to have my indy do it since it was only $900 and I'm only a hobby mechanic with small blocks of free time. I definitely agree with 82DMC12. It's not that people aren't interested, you are just way over the head of most of the folks here. If you look at the comments and pictures I just posted of the timing job almost no one responded with any commentary except a couple people that also just did the job. Makes sense, I didn't know much about this job until a few weeks ago either....

Also I hate to say it but I don't think there's any way of adjusting things or doing anything in obdeleven. You need to get back into the timing case and follow the factory procedure again because something isn't lined up, I don't think you're going to be able to tinker with it to perfection and it's probably faster to just start over and re-time it. Once it's done correctly if you replace all the hardware, your phase position should drop to under 1 degree. Mine was at 5.5 degrees before the job and then dropped to .9 degrees (that's after full tear on the highway, it's about .7 degrees after cold startup) after the job. I would replace all rails, both tensioners, both timing chains (oil pump isn't timed), etc.

I'm shocked your phase position was > 10 degrees for at least a couple of reasons. First, an Audi tech told me the CEL (check engine) will go on at +/- 6 degrees. Were you not getting a CEL or at least throwing codes? Second, 10 degrees is crazy "stretch" -- that's like a link and a half, I'm shocked your upper tensioner literally didn't just come out of the housing. Was the drivability of the vehicle compromised? would have thought it would drive poorly with bad gas mileage, etc. It's "only" 10 degrees but that's pretty significant from the perspective of timing retardation.

Coast2Coast

Driving was pretty bad, really had to finesse the gas. Mileage was trash as well. I would notice that on deceleration, it would stall. Upon accelerating, it would bog. The tensioner was out there but I didnt count how many it was out, totally forgot. Anyhow, I went ahead and redid everything per manual spec. I even got a friend help me out with holding the "spanners" lol while I put on and held the timing chain to the crank sprocket. Everything went down good and when I fired it up I was at 7.80°. I was f****** embarrassed, even though no one was around. So I got a friend to help me adjust the camshaft and hold them while I slipped on the chain...that didnt work. The only thing I can think of is that when I set the engine to TDC, that it moves slightly when we try to take off the crank pulley. I say crank because it takes a few tries and it does move but I do my best to reset it to the marks. Everything, as far as timing chain kit, was replaced with exception of a guide for balance shafts and oil chain guide. I dropped pan and did new chain. I even watched the humble mechanic video and took the idea of reference marking everything and I still wound up with this same scenario. Ibcheck obdeleven for is for the intake phase position, I dont expect wonder out of that, mostly used as a reference. Could it be that my intake cam altogether is the culprit?

silver_tt

Ya I also watched the humble mechanic video among some others. He reference marked everything but not a bad idea since it is easy to make a mistake and there's no room for error on this job. So you re-timed it and it's 7.8 which is basically the same as it was the first time at 7.65? Weird, I really wish I could help you more. As far as if you're not sure if you moved time off of TDC, 7 degrees isn't that much, that's just one tooth on the intake cam gear (has 46 teeth, 360 degrees / 46 = 7.8 degrees) so you can see that's not much if you think you knocked it off TDC. Not sure what about the intake cam itself would be the culprit? I would think the cam is just fine, still seems like something not timed up perfect to me but not having done the actual job it would be really helpful if someone else that did can offer their help. This is nothing to be embarrassed about, this job isn't a walk in a park, you're already ahead of 99% of most of the community so if you don't get the volume of responses you are hoping for it's not because people aren't interested or don't care. Just need the right person who has done this job to step up.

Also I know you have other problems right now but did you inspect the screen on the cam bridge? Mine had ripped off and fortunately was just sitting/stuck in the oil passageway not blocking much and hadn't gone flying off. The part number in my 2014 was the one ending in "G" and I replaced it with the new version ending in "K"

Coast2Coast

Thanks, I appreciate the words. I did inspect the cam bridge because I thought screen was missing, turns out it was not. It was intact but I went ahead and removed it. The car had already had the timing done beforehand but the indy shop I went to went with a china product that seemed to have the part number grinded off. Therefore, I didn't want to risk it not being a revised version so I took it off. I'm going to take it for a spin for the first time and see what 7.80 feels like. Won't be able to get on it. I broke off the connector portion of the blue oil pressure switch and that wont be here until tomorrow morning
forgot to mention that the cam gear on intake side where the oil control valve gets reverse threaded would move side to side a bit when I tried to move it. Not sure if it is supposed to have any play that is why I mentioned the cam. Sorry for not specifying

silver_tt

Wow, the part number was grinded off? WTF? You definitely only want OEM parts in that timing case, anything but that could cause you problems, I would get rid of the China knock-off parts if there are any others you didn't replace. Also I'm assuming you are replacing the lower timing chain (the one on the balance shafts) too.

Also, I'm pretty sure the intake cam gear should not be moving side to side ??? That could be the problem.