Wow, what a race and what a ending...
09-07-2008, 06:02 PM
#22
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The point is that they can give him a penalty for the next race by moving him back on the grid...
Lewis crashed out of the Montreal race and yet they moved him back 10 spots for the start of the next race.
If Kimi really did pass on a waving yellow he should get penalise period.
If Kimi really did pass on a waving yellow he should get penalise period.
09-07-2008, 06:23 PM
#23
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I think those passes were fine...
You can always pass the car, or cars, that caused the yellow in the first place, even if they're rejoining the race. As for passing Lewis, well he went off track to avoid hitting the Williams so he can be "passed" legally as well. Once you go off track it's not the responsibility of the drivers behind you to wait until you rejoin. This is true for local yellows as well as full-course yellows. For example, if someone spins off track while scrubbing their tires under a full-course yellow then it's appropriate to pass them. They've lost the position rather than you taking it.
09-07-2008, 06:49 PM
#24
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I believe FIA rules are no passing until the next green flag
passing the spinning car is legit but unless Hamilton and Kimi were both at the plane of the next flagging station (who would be green at that point), then Kimi was not in the right to pass him.
But with Hamilton off the racing surface, that could play into it and make it legit.
But with Hamilton off the racing surface, that could play into it and make it legit.
09-07-2008, 06:59 PM
#25
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SCCA permits passing after the incident. I doubt FIA is different but haven't read their rulebook.
By the way, I read the press conference transcript a few minutes ago and Hamilton talks about passing Rosberg's car ahead of Kimi.
09-07-2008, 07:03 PM
#26
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different race groups have different flagging rules
I flag here at Miller in Utah and we have to be sure to ask in the morning for pro events what are the special rules. Some groups are passing after the incident others are at the first green flag.
I'm fairly certain FIM (MotoGP and World Superbike) are no passing until the next green flag. Which is kind of non issue as there are flags about every 100 yards along the track (I'm not kidding, normally we do 10 stations on outer track, FIM had us at like 30).
But again, if Hamilton was off the racing surface, it doesn't matter.
I'm fairly certain FIM (MotoGP and World Superbike) are no passing until the next green flag. Which is kind of non issue as there are flags about every 100 yards along the track (I'm not kidding, normally we do 10 stations on outer track, FIM had us at like 30).
But again, if Hamilton was off the racing surface, it doesn't matter.
09-07-2008, 09:17 PM
#27
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Here is what I'm going by. Read the whole text if you want it is interesting but the passing on...
Yellows is further down in the text...
<b>Star of the Race...</b>
"Max Mosley's FIA Race Stewards
How do you turn a magnificent sporting occasion into an utter farce? Ask Max.
The decision by his stewards at the Belgian Grand Prix to penalise Lewis Hamilton for cutting the chicane has to figure in the all-time list of worst sporting decisions. It's as bad, if not worse, than the favouritism shown towards Ferrari at Monza in 2006 when Fernando Alonso was penalised for supposedly holding up Felipe Massa on his qualifying lap and being relegated down the grid.
The subsequent outcry was deafening.
This time round, though, there's a political implication. We have a situation where the stewards are moderated by Max Mosley's race representative Allan Donnelly. Hmmm.
This wasn't the first stupid mistake the stewards had made during the race weekend. During the GP2 feature race, Bruno Senna's championship challenge virtually came to a halt when he was adjudged to have had an unsafe release from a pit-stop and incurred a drive-though penalty.
Last time out at Valencia, the stewards couldn't come to a decision over Felipe Massa's "unsafe release" and waited till after the race before handing him a small fine.
Senna was leading the GP2 race when he pitted, was released by his pitcrew and because the pitlane was wet incurred wheelspin getting out of his box. As he slithered into pitlane, an approaching car which he would normally have got out in front of, actually passed him by and he had to slot in behind. No contact and certainly no running alongside like Massa had done with Sutil in Valencia.
Senna's pitcrew certainly had no idea that he was going to encounter a whole load of wheelspin as he rejoined, yet still he was penalised. (The only good thing to be said about it was that the stewards didn't ***** around like they did in Valencia and made a decision immediately - even if it was a crap one)
In the F1 race we saw Heikki Kovalainen make a move on Mark Webber that didn't come off. It was poor, it was clumsy and frankly it deserved a penalty - which he duly got. But let's replay the tapes and see how many more passing moves we could argue that for this season. How about Kimi Raikkonen crashing into the back of Adrian Sutil in Monaco...? David Coulthard on about six other cars in six other races...?
And how come you're allowed to cut the chicane so often in Montreal to keep ahead of pursuing cars...?
Exactly. It sucks.
There'll be enough debate about the chicane incident itself, so let's leave that to others. <b>But why wasn't there action taken against Raikkonen for not slowing down when both he and Hamilton came across the waved yellows of the Rosberg incident on Lap 42. If you replay the tapes you see Hamilton slow down for the yellows and then Raikkonen almost hit him because he isn't taking any notice.
Hamilton steers his car off road to avoid Rosberg and then Raikkonen overtakes under waved yellows. Anyone spot a penalty there...? Certainly not the stewards. It's interesting to note that they came up with the Bruno Senna decision within a lap, the Kovalainen decision within a lap, and yet the Hamilton decision to investigate came after the race.</b>
No doubt there will be all kinds of repercussions over this and it's certainly worth Mclaren taking it to appeal. <b>The fact that the most experienced man of all - race director Charlie Whiting - saw nothing wrong with Hamilton's driving tells you all you need to know about the standard of person that acts as a steward.</b>
The stewards and Donnelly should now face a charge of bringing the sport into disrepute. Though, come to think ot it, it's hard to think of F1 as a sport now."
<b>Star of the Race...</b>
"Max Mosley's FIA Race Stewards
How do you turn a magnificent sporting occasion into an utter farce? Ask Max.
The decision by his stewards at the Belgian Grand Prix to penalise Lewis Hamilton for cutting the chicane has to figure in the all-time list of worst sporting decisions. It's as bad, if not worse, than the favouritism shown towards Ferrari at Monza in 2006 when Fernando Alonso was penalised for supposedly holding up Felipe Massa on his qualifying lap and being relegated down the grid.
The subsequent outcry was deafening.
This time round, though, there's a political implication. We have a situation where the stewards are moderated by Max Mosley's race representative Allan Donnelly. Hmmm.
This wasn't the first stupid mistake the stewards had made during the race weekend. During the GP2 feature race, Bruno Senna's championship challenge virtually came to a halt when he was adjudged to have had an unsafe release from a pit-stop and incurred a drive-though penalty.
Last time out at Valencia, the stewards couldn't come to a decision over Felipe Massa's "unsafe release" and waited till after the race before handing him a small fine.
Senna was leading the GP2 race when he pitted, was released by his pitcrew and because the pitlane was wet incurred wheelspin getting out of his box. As he slithered into pitlane, an approaching car which he would normally have got out in front of, actually passed him by and he had to slot in behind. No contact and certainly no running alongside like Massa had done with Sutil in Valencia.
Senna's pitcrew certainly had no idea that he was going to encounter a whole load of wheelspin as he rejoined, yet still he was penalised. (The only good thing to be said about it was that the stewards didn't ***** around like they did in Valencia and made a decision immediately - even if it was a crap one)
In the F1 race we saw Heikki Kovalainen make a move on Mark Webber that didn't come off. It was poor, it was clumsy and frankly it deserved a penalty - which he duly got. But let's replay the tapes and see how many more passing moves we could argue that for this season. How about Kimi Raikkonen crashing into the back of Adrian Sutil in Monaco...? David Coulthard on about six other cars in six other races...?
And how come you're allowed to cut the chicane so often in Montreal to keep ahead of pursuing cars...?
Exactly. It sucks.
There'll be enough debate about the chicane incident itself, so let's leave that to others. <b>But why wasn't there action taken against Raikkonen for not slowing down when both he and Hamilton came across the waved yellows of the Rosberg incident on Lap 42. If you replay the tapes you see Hamilton slow down for the yellows and then Raikkonen almost hit him because he isn't taking any notice.
Hamilton steers his car off road to avoid Rosberg and then Raikkonen overtakes under waved yellows. Anyone spot a penalty there...? Certainly not the stewards. It's interesting to note that they came up with the Bruno Senna decision within a lap, the Kovalainen decision within a lap, and yet the Hamilton decision to investigate came after the race.</b>
No doubt there will be all kinds of repercussions over this and it's certainly worth Mclaren taking it to appeal. <b>The fact that the most experienced man of all - race director Charlie Whiting - saw nothing wrong with Hamilton's driving tells you all you need to know about the standard of person that acts as a steward.</b>
The stewards and Donnelly should now face a charge of bringing the sport into disrepute. Though, come to think ot it, it's hard to think of F1 as a sport now."
09-08-2008, 07:18 AM
#29
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He has brought his own for a long time...
honestly guys, this isn't a "new" thing with him.
Everybody was too focused on the car failures at McLaren and seems to have ended up ignoring the other instances of Raikkonenitous.
Everybody was too focused on the car failures at McLaren and seems to have ended up ignoring the other instances of Raikkonenitous.
09-08-2008, 10:07 AM
#30
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Would you be referring to the front wing falling off forcing him into the kitty litter?
Or perhaps the infamous rf suspension failing after RD told him to stay out? Or maybe the Mercedes engine grenading a couple of laps from the finish? I don't think those were in Kimi's control, niether were most of the Ferarri mechanical failures this year, which Massa has also experienced.