Anyone else doing the Willow Springs day with Open Track Racing on the 19th?
05-10-2004, 07:13 PM
#1
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Anyone else doing the Willow Springs day with Open Track Racing on the 19th?
I'll be there along with a couple others from the boards. I just got an email saying there are a few spots left, so if you're interested you should register pretty soon. Cost is $145. Never been to the Willow Springs big track before, anyone have tips for me?<ul><li><a href="http://www.opentrackracing.com/">http://www.opentrackracing.com/</a</li></ul>
05-11-2004, 01:19 AM
#4
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I have only done 2 track events this being the 2nd.......
Turn 8
I was around 105 pretty comfy
instructor in my car 120
instructor in one of his Pro7 1st gen RX7 was pinned @ 138mph (he also was in one of the fastest cars on the track....especially for the $$$$)
Turn one I did not get a chance too look, but I would say a lot slower than 8, but my line on 1 was not that consistant
Also the hills like turn 2, and after 3 are pretty steep
I was around 105 pretty comfy
instructor in my car 120
instructor in one of his Pro7 1st gen RX7 was pinned @ 138mph (he also was in one of the fastest cars on the track....especially for the $$$$)
Turn one I did not get a chance too look, but I would say a lot slower than 8, but my line on 1 was not that consistant
Also the hills like turn 2, and after 3 are pretty steep
05-11-2004, 09:07 AM
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Re: I have only done 2 track events this being the 2nd.......
Pretty much any car with decent suspension on steet tires can do T8 at ~120. 130 plus on R tires if you have the power and want to take it to the edge at those speeds.
IMO, Willow is much more a momentum track than pure HP. Big HP will make up for taking the corners slow (either underdriving the car or a car with very low grip to HP). I reasonable balanced car is all about momentum at Big Willow.
IMO, Willow is much more a momentum track than pure HP. Big HP will make up for taking the corners slow (either underdriving the car or a car with very low grip to HP). I reasonable balanced car is all about momentum at Big Willow.
05-11-2004, 09:24 AM
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Tips
This is a very, very fast track. The risks are somewhat higher than it might appear as the run off areas have medium sized rocks so offs can do some damage even if you don't hit anything. Willow looks like an easy track with few corners but some of the turns are really difficult to get right - esp T9.
T1 - I have driven a Porsche TT which demands pretty heavy braking there and a sports racer which is close to flat (entering at 130+). The thing about T1 is the changing camber. If you carry big entry speed, the car dances and you 'know' you are going to crash. But as you approach the apex, the camber catches the car is it hooks up. As you exit, there is some reverse camber (crowning) so the car will dart off the track if you are carrying too much speed. Even in a street car, you are probably doing 90 mph min corner speed (and that is a guess because I don't have any data on that). Work up to that corner and show it some respect.
T2 - lots of camber to help and you can take quite a few lines through here. Some people prefer single apex and some double. Does not seem to matter, depending on your car. Last time I was there, it was bumpy down low which cost some grip so a car width off the bottom was faster.
T3 gets a lot of people. Hard braking going in, but there is lost of grip at exit. I suspect most problems are because the driver panics, thinknig they won't make the track out. Every time I have gone fast through T3 I 'knew" I was going off, but the car grips after the apex.
T4 is a lift for most cars. You will want to brake at first and see how you do. As you exit, stay left way past where you think you want to come back. That allows a straight line while braking for T5. T5 feels weird as it has an odd shape. Make sure you use all the track out there as it is the start of a very long full throttle section.
T6 is a hill with a kink. Dpeends on car and can be nothing or hair-raising. T7 is not a corner for anyone.
T8 for most people is about comfort level. Few cars can go fast enough into 8 to have to slow. My old TT on street tires was an exception. DO your slowing and get back on the throttle to learn how to build speed through T8. My Radical would do ~144 through there - bleeding a bit of speed and coming back up to that speed by the entry to T9.
T9 - I'll warn you that I am a real wimp there. Street cars need some braking then sort of follow the outer edge of the track as it curves around. At the point where you can see where the apex will be, you complete the turn in. T9 at speed requires lots of throttle to keep the car planted. If you lift, you spin. In the Racical, I would enter at over 140, do a quick downshift and right back to full throttle. Speed would scrub to ~120 depending on which skirt I was wearing that day. Really fast guys in those cars are flat all the way into and through T9 with a min corner speed that is ~130. In the Porsche, I think min corner speed was around 90.
Just realize that the track looks safe as there is not much to hit, but there are some things and the very high speeds make any off very exciting. I have not had many offs at that track and want to keep it that way. I have gone off the outside of T1 at ~120 and spun a different car at ~100 in T1. Dropped wheels at T9 a time or two and come through it fine.
T1 - I have driven a Porsche TT which demands pretty heavy braking there and a sports racer which is close to flat (entering at 130+). The thing about T1 is the changing camber. If you carry big entry speed, the car dances and you 'know' you are going to crash. But as you approach the apex, the camber catches the car is it hooks up. As you exit, there is some reverse camber (crowning) so the car will dart off the track if you are carrying too much speed. Even in a street car, you are probably doing 90 mph min corner speed (and that is a guess because I don't have any data on that). Work up to that corner and show it some respect.
T2 - lots of camber to help and you can take quite a few lines through here. Some people prefer single apex and some double. Does not seem to matter, depending on your car. Last time I was there, it was bumpy down low which cost some grip so a car width off the bottom was faster.
T3 gets a lot of people. Hard braking going in, but there is lost of grip at exit. I suspect most problems are because the driver panics, thinknig they won't make the track out. Every time I have gone fast through T3 I 'knew" I was going off, but the car grips after the apex.
T4 is a lift for most cars. You will want to brake at first and see how you do. As you exit, stay left way past where you think you want to come back. That allows a straight line while braking for T5. T5 feels weird as it has an odd shape. Make sure you use all the track out there as it is the start of a very long full throttle section.
T6 is a hill with a kink. Dpeends on car and can be nothing or hair-raising. T7 is not a corner for anyone.
T8 for most people is about comfort level. Few cars can go fast enough into 8 to have to slow. My old TT on street tires was an exception. DO your slowing and get back on the throttle to learn how to build speed through T8. My Radical would do ~144 through there - bleeding a bit of speed and coming back up to that speed by the entry to T9.
T9 - I'll warn you that I am a real wimp there. Street cars need some braking then sort of follow the outer edge of the track as it curves around. At the point where you can see where the apex will be, you complete the turn in. T9 at speed requires lots of throttle to keep the car planted. If you lift, you spin. In the Racical, I would enter at over 140, do a quick downshift and right back to full throttle. Speed would scrub to ~120 depending on which skirt I was wearing that day. Really fast guys in those cars are flat all the way into and through T9 with a min corner speed that is ~130. In the Porsche, I think min corner speed was around 90.
Just realize that the track looks safe as there is not much to hit, but there are some things and the very high speeds make any off very exciting. I have not had many offs at that track and want to keep it that way. I have gone off the outside of T1 at ~120 and spun a different car at ~100 in T1. Dropped wheels at T9 a time or two and come through it fine.
05-11-2004, 12:41 PM
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Re: I have only done 2 track events this being the 2nd.......
An SRF (Spec Racer Ford) weighs in at 1670lbs, and has about 105 HP. We're not exactly considered a "high HP" race car. The lap record average for SRF at Willows is almost exactly 100Mph. So I'd agree with Mr Dalen. It's momentum, not HP.
Todd Butler
SRF 73 Oregon Region
Todd Butler
SRF 73 Oregon Region
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05-11-2004, 01:07 PM
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I used to run SRF
Willow is brutal on mistakes in that car. One minor glitch and you lose 2 seconds there. I am better in DSR as I can recover better from those errors. SRF is one of the hardest cars to drvie truly fast (at least of those cars I have experience in).
05-11-2004, 08:52 PM
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Dang - that's a bargain! I'd be there with my rental car except I gotta be in St. Louis next week.
Have fun. And thanks all for the tips - you have opened my eyes (a little) about the nuances of Willow.
