Will RSQ8 availability be limited?
03-19-2020, 12:04 PM
#41
Mark - Good points. In my case, I was considering both the S & RS. But I am keeping this car in the Adirondacks and need it to work in winter conditions. I have a few other cars with Summer tires only and they are toys. I didn't want the hassle of changing tires every 6 months, plus the RS looks awesome, but I don't mind the S being a bit more subtle.
The fact that Audi put a great engine I the S is also icing on the cake to your point.
If I get another for my FL home, and I might. Then it will be RS in a crazy color and damn the subtlety. Bring it on!
The fact that Audi put a great engine I the S is also icing on the cake to your point.
If I get another for my FL home, and I might. Then it will be RS in a crazy color and damn the subtlety. Bring it on!
03-19-2020, 02:32 PM
#42
AudiWorld Senior Member
I guess I live in a different world. The question was/is "Will RSQ8 availability be limited?" I kept pondering what the question meant. And, as far as everything the Internet is ready to reveal, the answer that I would assume would be definitive would be if Audi only plans to make "X" number for the world and that "Y" country gets a quantity of "Z" units.
I can't find any evidence that Audi will not produce as many as the market is willing to purchase -- for the sake of a crazy example, I would assume if 100,000 customers wanted to plunk down the asking price, I would assume Audi would do everything it could to meet the demand.
Having said this, my belief is that the RSQ8 WILL be a "limited" (sales) vehicle, due to it's asking price. If "X" number of customers were undeterred by a $130 - $150K MSRP (based on configuration/options, etc.) to the extent that there really were as many customers for an RSQ8 as for an A3 or A4 or Q5, etc., the sky's the limit.
The fact that Audi knows -- within some experiential parameters -- how many people are interested in a vehicle relative to its MSRP, I would assume they will build what they have calculated the market (the global market) will buy.
What I find a bit confusing is the SQ8 being -- apparently -- the RSQ8's competition. Was I the master of Audi's products, I would have put the 444HP twin-turbo V6 in the SQ8 (a nice bump above the regular ICE Q8) and make the difference/distance between the SQ and RSQ more pronounced. Sort of like the differences between the A5, S5, and RS5 seems like it would have been an easier to understand progression for price. The SQ8 and the RSQ8 seem different, to be sure, but what I wonder is if the new-to-Audi customer who drives first a Q8 then an SQ8 may say, "I can't justify the [subtle] differences between the S and the RS.
To be clear, I'm not talking THAT much about the performance envelope differences, I'm thinking of the visual differentiation -- once you get to a Prestige SQ8 with an option or two, customers may simply not see the merits in going with the RSQ8.
I am, I know, often wrong, but I find the competition between the SQ and RSQ to be a bit confusing. On the other hand, perhaps someone who walks into an Audi dealer thinking $120,000, $130,000 or more will be extracted from their check books isn't that rare after all. Here in SW Ohio, there are lots of Audis, BMWs, and Mercedes (and Porsche's too), most of them priced under $100,000. Personally, I'd load up an SQ8 and drive off grinning from ear-to-ear. The RS seems too much for too little (in comparison).
Now, if I'm looking at a Urus -- well the RSQ8 seems like a friggin' bargain.
I can't find any evidence that Audi will not produce as many as the market is willing to purchase -- for the sake of a crazy example, I would assume if 100,000 customers wanted to plunk down the asking price, I would assume Audi would do everything it could to meet the demand.
Having said this, my belief is that the RSQ8 WILL be a "limited" (sales) vehicle, due to it's asking price. If "X" number of customers were undeterred by a $130 - $150K MSRP (based on configuration/options, etc.) to the extent that there really were as many customers for an RSQ8 as for an A3 or A4 or Q5, etc., the sky's the limit.
The fact that Audi knows -- within some experiential parameters -- how many people are interested in a vehicle relative to its MSRP, I would assume they will build what they have calculated the market (the global market) will buy.
What I find a bit confusing is the SQ8 being -- apparently -- the RSQ8's competition. Was I the master of Audi's products, I would have put the 444HP twin-turbo V6 in the SQ8 (a nice bump above the regular ICE Q8) and make the difference/distance between the SQ and RSQ more pronounced. Sort of like the differences between the A5, S5, and RS5 seems like it would have been an easier to understand progression for price. The SQ8 and the RSQ8 seem different, to be sure, but what I wonder is if the new-to-Audi customer who drives first a Q8 then an SQ8 may say, "I can't justify the [subtle] differences between the S and the RS.
To be clear, I'm not talking THAT much about the performance envelope differences, I'm thinking of the visual differentiation -- once you get to a Prestige SQ8 with an option or two, customers may simply not see the merits in going with the RSQ8.
I am, I know, often wrong, but I find the competition between the SQ and RSQ to be a bit confusing. On the other hand, perhaps someone who walks into an Audi dealer thinking $120,000, $130,000 or more will be extracted from their check books isn't that rare after all. Here in SW Ohio, there are lots of Audis, BMWs, and Mercedes (and Porsche's too), most of them priced under $100,000. Personally, I'd load up an SQ8 and drive off grinning from ear-to-ear. The RS seems too much for too little (in comparison).
Now, if I'm looking at a Urus -- well the RSQ8 seems like a friggin' bargain.
I also do not trust that Audi won't overbuild the RS line. They seem to be very RS drunk lately with manufacturing and I'm not sure if the lesson has been learned yet.
03-20-2020, 08:56 AM
#43
The lure of the increased margin (profit) that accompanies an RS model is strong. Moreover, there does appear to be a market for RS models. We'll see if the COVID-19 situation makes people, regardless of the size of their purse (I'm excluding the 1%) think an RS makes for "difficult" optics. What I've been frustrated by has been -- past tense -- Audi's lethargic approach to bringing "S" models to the market.
Further, I find it difficult to believe that Audi will not, for example, start making electric turbocharged versions of their ICEs widespread.
Let me give you a quick example. Two weeks ago (seems like an eternity now) my wife and I took a 2020 S6 out for a long test drive. I ordered one in November 2019, and its build date was week 2 in April (probably later, now) and we wanted to see what the new V6 electric turbo felt like. We currently have a 2018 S4 and a 2019 Q8. Both of them have some amount of "lag" that is somewhat mitigated by driving in "S" mode. The new S6 has no lag -- due, of course, to the fact that the turbo is kept at 70,000RPM even at a full stop traffic light situation.
My belief is that as ICEs are being wound down by the world's automakers, that such technologies will be applied to squeeze that last bit of power and additional MPGs out of V6s and i-4s.
Put in more direct terms: My 2018 S4 V6 turbo, if it had the electric turbocharger, would be a keeper for perhaps another couple of years. And, absolutely, if the Q8 simply had the S4's engine tune plus the electric turbo, we would have perhaps ZERO complaints about its power. My wife -- the Q8's primary driver -- LOVES the car but just wishes the off the line power would come on "in real-time," rather than displaying a moment's hesitation (or lag).
So, back to the RS proliferation: Barring any adverse market reaction to high-buck high-performance cars caused by the global pandemic, I would expect Audi will keep producing RS versions of ALL of its vehicles as long as there are customers clamoring for them.
I have been to the factory in Ingolstadt 6 times and taken the factory tour 4 times (with the Audi Club of North America). While there Audi showed us cars that had a "+" after their names -- these were higher performance versions of 'regular' Audis. I was particularly impressed by the S6+ which seemed to me to be a way to bridge the distance between the S and RS versions. In short, you could get an S+ which had more power but for a relatively low MSRP premium.
Of course, this would seriously compete with RS models, but it would, overall, increase the take-rate for Audi's higher (highest) performance vehicles.
There's surely a Q9 in the wings, the S8 still exists (the damn thing is a Batmobile) -- is it, therefore, beyond the pale that there would be an SQ9 and an RSQ9 and an RS8? Will there be, in the US, an RSQ5, etc?
One last example, it seems the Q8 -- singled out -- should have considered the "7" approach. There is, as you know, an A7, S7, and an RS7 (V6 single-turbo, V6 electric twin-turbo, and V8 twin-turbo). This line up should have been "rationalized" to include the Q8, IMO. Instead, the SQ8 seems to me to have been "over-engined" in comparison to the SOP in Audi's other products.
Often wrong, never uncertain, I remain.
Further, I find it difficult to believe that Audi will not, for example, start making electric turbocharged versions of their ICEs widespread.
Let me give you a quick example. Two weeks ago (seems like an eternity now) my wife and I took a 2020 S6 out for a long test drive. I ordered one in November 2019, and its build date was week 2 in April (probably later, now) and we wanted to see what the new V6 electric turbo felt like. We currently have a 2018 S4 and a 2019 Q8. Both of them have some amount of "lag" that is somewhat mitigated by driving in "S" mode. The new S6 has no lag -- due, of course, to the fact that the turbo is kept at 70,000RPM even at a full stop traffic light situation.
My belief is that as ICEs are being wound down by the world's automakers, that such technologies will be applied to squeeze that last bit of power and additional MPGs out of V6s and i-4s.
Put in more direct terms: My 2018 S4 V6 turbo, if it had the electric turbocharger, would be a keeper for perhaps another couple of years. And, absolutely, if the Q8 simply had the S4's engine tune plus the electric turbo, we would have perhaps ZERO complaints about its power. My wife -- the Q8's primary driver -- LOVES the car but just wishes the off the line power would come on "in real-time," rather than displaying a moment's hesitation (or lag).
So, back to the RS proliferation: Barring any adverse market reaction to high-buck high-performance cars caused by the global pandemic, I would expect Audi will keep producing RS versions of ALL of its vehicles as long as there are customers clamoring for them.
I have been to the factory in Ingolstadt 6 times and taken the factory tour 4 times (with the Audi Club of North America). While there Audi showed us cars that had a "+" after their names -- these were higher performance versions of 'regular' Audis. I was particularly impressed by the S6+ which seemed to me to be a way to bridge the distance between the S and RS versions. In short, you could get an S+ which had more power but for a relatively low MSRP premium.
Of course, this would seriously compete with RS models, but it would, overall, increase the take-rate for Audi's higher (highest) performance vehicles.
There's surely a Q9 in the wings, the S8 still exists (the damn thing is a Batmobile) -- is it, therefore, beyond the pale that there would be an SQ9 and an RSQ9 and an RS8? Will there be, in the US, an RSQ5, etc?
One last example, it seems the Q8 -- singled out -- should have considered the "7" approach. There is, as you know, an A7, S7, and an RS7 (V6 single-turbo, V6 electric twin-turbo, and V8 twin-turbo). This line up should have been "rationalized" to include the Q8, IMO. Instead, the SQ8 seems to me to have been "over-engined" in comparison to the SOP in Audi's other products.
Often wrong, never uncertain, I remain.
03-22-2020, 06:59 PM
#44
According to Auto Bild, or something like that: "The difference between the inside of the RS Q8 and the entry-level Audi Q8 isn’t as significant as some people might like, though, even if there's a smattering of RS badges and sports seats. You'll need to upgrade to Carbon Black or Vorsprung specification for the full effect, as these feature black Alcantara for the headlining, steering wheel and gear lever."
I think the RSQ8 could be a bit of difficult sale is my takeaway -- unless the competition is the Urus. Otherwise, the SQ8 is the goldilocks version.
I think the RSQ8 could be a bit of difficult sale is my takeaway -- unless the competition is the Urus. Otherwise, the SQ8 is the goldilocks version.
03-22-2020, 07:17 PM
#45
AudiWorld Senior Member
......
One last example, it seems the Q8 -- singled out -- should have considered the "7" approach. There is, as you know, an A7, S7, and an RS7 (V6 single-turbo, V6 electric twin-turbo, and V8 twin-turbo). This line up should have been "rationalized" to include the Q8, IMO. Instead, the SQ8 seems to me to have been "over-engined" in comparison to the SOP in Audi's other products.
Often wrong, never uncertain, I remain.
One last example, it seems the Q8 -- singled out -- should have considered the "7" approach. There is, as you know, an A7, S7, and an RS7 (V6 single-turbo, V6 electric twin-turbo, and V8 twin-turbo). This line up should have been "rationalized" to include the Q8, IMO. Instead, the SQ8 seems to me to have been "over-engined" in comparison to the SOP in Audi's other products.
Often wrong, never uncertain, I remain.
I just don't know why they didn't do the same with the S7.
03-23-2020, 09:33 AM
#46
I've driven the 2020 S6 and it is very powerful -- in fact it has MORE DRAMA than the previous V8 S6. I would argue the same applies to the S7 in this era of fewer cylinders, lower emissions, improved MPGs. The electric turbocharger changes the RS5's twin-turbo V6 from "some lag" to "no lag"!
What I find somewhat confusing is that the SQ8 ups the Q8's HP from 335 to 500. The RSQ8 adds another 92HP -- at a huge cost. The current Q8's V6 if it, too, simply had the electric turbocharger would still be able to squirt away from most of the other cars it seems to be competing with. The goldilocks version, with 450 pound-feet of torque and 444 HP (V6) seems to me to have been the "rationalized" engine choice.
Just an opinion. I'm still thinking the SQ8 will be that model's goldilocks despite the fact that I really don't see the need for a V8, which, due to the "optics" may give some folks "pause" -- the V6 twin-turbo could've been the best of both worlds.
What I find somewhat confusing is that the SQ8 ups the Q8's HP from 335 to 500. The RSQ8 adds another 92HP -- at a huge cost. The current Q8's V6 if it, too, simply had the electric turbocharger would still be able to squirt away from most of the other cars it seems to be competing with. The goldilocks version, with 450 pound-feet of torque and 444 HP (V6) seems to me to have been the "rationalized" engine choice.
Just an opinion. I'm still thinking the SQ8 will be that model's goldilocks despite the fact that I really don't see the need for a V8, which, due to the "optics" may give some folks "pause" -- the V6 twin-turbo could've been the best of both worlds.
03-23-2020, 09:59 AM
#47
AudiWorld Senior Member
I've driven the 2020 S6 and it is very powerful -- in fact it has MORE DRAMA than the previous V8 S6. I would argue the same applies to the S7 in this era of fewer cylinders, lower emissions, improved MPGs. The electric turbocharger changes the RS5's twin-turbo V6 from "some lag" to "no lag"!
What I find somewhat confusing is that the SQ8 ups the Q8's HP from 335 to 500. The RSQ8 adds another 92HP -- at a huge cost. The current Q8's V6 if it, too, simply had the electric turbocharger would still be able to squirt away from most of the other cars it seems to be competing with. The goldilocks version, with 450 pound-feet of torque and 444 HP (V6) seems to me to have been the "rationalized" engine choice.
Just an opinion. I'm still thinking the SQ8 will be that model's goldilocks despite the fact that I really don't see the need for a V8, which, due to the "optics" may give some folks "pause" -- the V6 twin-turbo could've been the best of both worlds.
What I find somewhat confusing is that the SQ8 ups the Q8's HP from 335 to 500. The RSQ8 adds another 92HP -- at a huge cost. The current Q8's V6 if it, too, simply had the electric turbocharger would still be able to squirt away from most of the other cars it seems to be competing with. The goldilocks version, with 450 pound-feet of torque and 444 HP (V6) seems to me to have been the "rationalized" engine choice.
Just an opinion. I'm still thinking the SQ8 will be that model's goldilocks despite the fact that I really don't see the need for a V8, which, due to the "optics" may give some folks "pause" -- the V6 twin-turbo could've been the best of both worlds.
With people that finance or buy, the difference will be about $20k.
I for sure would rather save $20k, depending on how much I plan to do to it customization wise. I do like the front end of the RS version better, but I am yet to see the SQ8 front with black optics.
03-23-2020, 10:09 AM
#48
AudiWorld Senior Member
RS cars sell at a fraction of the volume of S cars, and the Q8 range I doubt will change that. Very few people have an interest in a performance SUV with a twin-turbo V8.
03-23-2020, 10:15 AM
#49
AudiWorld Senior Member
I don't think that's accurate. RS cars NEVER have lease incentives, while S cars do. The price difference to lease these two cars will be HUGE. Have you seen the leasing difference between an RS5 and a S5 or a TTS and TT RS? Leasing a R8 Performance over a standard R8 is a 25% higher payment, similar to a S compared to RS car
RS cars sell at a fraction of the volume of S cars, and the Q8 range I doubt will change that. Very few people have an interest in a performance SUV with a twin-turbo V8.
RS cars sell at a fraction of the volume of S cars, and the Q8 range I doubt will change that. Very few people have an interest in a performance SUV with a twin-turbo V8.
So basically a difference of $100k to $120k for the SQ8 and RSQ8 respectively.
As you stated, RS cars are rarely manufacturer incentivized. That doesn't stop dealers from cracking deals to move them. I don't imagine dealers budging much on orders. They may on models sitting on the lot, or orders that are made just to maintain allocation allotment.
03-23-2020, 10:33 AM
#50
AudiWorld Senior Member
I based my statement off outright MSRP. No discounts, or discounts of the same percentage on each model respectively.
So basically a difference of $100k to $120k for the SQ8 and RSQ8 respectively.
As you stated, RS cars are rarely manufacturer incentivized. That doesn't stop dealers from cracking deals to move them. I don't imagine dealers budging much on orders. They may on models sitting on the lot, or orders that are made just to maintain allocation allotment.
So basically a difference of $100k to $120k for the SQ8 and RSQ8 respectively.
As you stated, RS cars are rarely manufacturer incentivized. That doesn't stop dealers from cracking deals to move them. I don't imagine dealers budging much on orders. They may on models sitting on the lot, or orders that are made just to maintain allocation allotment.
Dealers often make identical deals (or even better) on ordered cars, as they have zero floor plan cost and more "fixed/known" expense as opposed to not knowing how long something will sit on the lot accruing floor plan interest. RS cars USED to be rare, people paid sticker for them and had waiting lists. Now you can't hardly give away RS models, and they are hugely discounted, more so than even many lesser models in some cases. Combine the economy with the "not very exclusive any more" RS sentiment and, after the first wave of early adopters, these things will sit on lots like lead waits.
There couldn't be a more terrible time for Audi to release an entire lineup of RS cars. The money should have been spent on their core products, like an actually meaningful update to the A4/A5/Q5 lineup. They botched this again, and sales numbers will reflect it. They will have to make huge deals on RS cars, destroying the used market and it all just comes undone.... We've seen these before from other brands. Eventually there will be no business case for RS cars because they loose so much money and they will be pulled from market...it's all but guaranteed.