exactoroland

Hello:
How does one successfully contest a ticket in court? The officer claimed I made a left turn when the light was red. It sure looked yellow as I was going through the intersection. A couple of minor points, The officer scribbled his signature on the ticket and his name was not printed underneath. Also, when the court doc showed up, my name was misspelled on it. The intersection in common is frequented by the police to pull over drivers who turn at the end of the left arrow turn cycle. There is a police car there on a weekly basis and will have people pulled over for the same thing I was ticketed for. Traffic in the left turn lane during commute times is stacked up and one can wait 2 or 3 light cycles before being able to turn. Can I claim poor traffic flow management on the townships behalf? The offence is 2 points and $150. Should I plead that I'll pay the fine and no points as long as they retime the light?
I would appreciate your input.

Roland

Scot W

A claim of poor traffic flow will get you no where in Court.

If this is indeed a target enforcement area, there is likely high precedent for enforcement. You should have known better than to run the yellow in that area (which is little consolation).

An incomplete or incorrect ticket may get you some leeway, but you will need a lawyer. In an of itself a ticket is a ticket, incomplete, name spelled incorrectly, you can even refuse to sign (which will only serve to PO the officer) it is still a summons to appear or to acquiesce, plead guilty and pay your fine.

I would guess there are lawyers that specialize in this type of action in your area. Hire one. It is part of the game. You pay the municipality or you pay the lawyer to get you out of the citation.

Courthouse Adage: A person who represents himself has a fool for a client.

finiki

Here is a copy of a similar discussion on the Minnesota Audi Club forum.


Like it or not, a lot of folks who drive Audis (as well as other cars, of course) enjoy speeding on public roads. This is a dumb idea, of course. A track day is a lot cheaper than a speeding ticket, and you can drive a lot faster.

If you can't help yourself, you will very likely end up with a speeding ticket (or worse) at some point in your driving career. So how does the process work?

First, you get a ticket, of course. Usually this has a court date on it when you must show up if you don't want to just pay the fine. If you have the time to show up, it is often in your best interest to go to court.

When might it not be in your best interest? Find a lawyer and ask them. Or look me up outside the forum. Basically, if you think you got away with something, it might be worth your while not to go to court, where the prosecutor could always charge you with what your ticket should have been.

Every court appearance is a chance to negotiate a better deal with the prosecutor. But with a traffic violation, you basically just have the one chance to negotiate, because your next appearance will probably be a trial, unless you (1) ask for time to hire a lawyer, or (2) you demand a written complaint.

If you want to hire a lawyer, ask for more time to do so. Don't demand a written complaint unless you think you have a legitimate reason to believe the officer did not have probable cause, or you will just **** off the prosecutor. However, if you do demand a written complaint, the prosecutor has 30 days to deliver it, which will be the length of your continuance, or the case is dismissed. But they can always re-charge you.

So since you have the one chance, you have to be effective. You'll basically just wait in line for a chance to have a brief conversation with the prosecutor, in which the prosecutor will basically tell you the deal they are willing to give you.

Whether you can get a better deal depends on how well you bargain. One of the most important things to do is propose an alternative resolution to the one the prosecutor is offering. It's like bargaining on a car's price. You don't just refuse the salesman's price, you propose a lower one. Same goes for traffic court.

There are a lot of potential plea bargains. One of the most common is called a CWOP (See-Wop, or continuance without plea). (Edit: This is also called a CFD or continuance for dismissal in St. Paul and probably some other jurisdictions.) This means you pay a fine and walk away, and if you aren't charged with a "same or similar" offense in the next year, the charge is withdrawn. If you are charged again, both charges are back on the table.

If you are in St. Paul, you chances of getting this are slim to none. If you are in any other jurisdiction, you have a better shot, but still don't count on it. This disposition is only slightly worse than getting the case dropped.

The next-best disposition is a stay of imposition under Minn. Stat. 609.135. In this case you plead guilty and pay a fine, but no sentence is imposed (imposition and execution are different things). If you are good for a year, the plea is withdrawn and the charge dropped. This is pretty good, either.

Stay of execution under 609.135 is next, which is the same as the above, except you know what the sentence will probably be if you mess up. It isn't really much better or worse than a stay of imposition.

There are a ton of other possibilities, but those are some keywords, at least. You can, of course, bargain for what the terms of your disposition will be. How much money, whether there will be any public service or required classes or testing.

So if you are going to try to negotiate on your own, make sure to propose an alternative to what the prosecutor is offering.

I'm happy to try to answer your questions about the process in general, or negotiating, specifically. However, I will not offer advice on any specific situations on the forum.

Edit: A note on trial. You don't want to go to trial unless you have a really good case. What is a really good case? For starters, if you didn't do it. A less good argument is that the officer did not have probable cause to stop you. You might want to run this by an attorney before you go running to trial. Chances are it doesn't mean what you think it means.

samglover



When good people do nothing, nothing gets done.

paulroad

did you enter the intersection while it was green? If so you need to state this with no room for doubt.

You need to bring this valid point home. That you were in the intersection prior to YELLOW. Because, it is then incumbent on the motorist to clear the intersection safely.

If you entered the intesection at the yellow you are as wrong as if it were read.

Claiming traffic flow is an argument for the town council/town traffic engineer and no reason to violate a driving law.

Find your state's traffic laws about intersections like this and you may find the rules that work in your favor.


ie: "your honor traffic law 35.1.5 which governs this interesection states, a motorist may enter the intersection safely while the control device is green, he then must proceed through the intersection in the event the control device turns red when oncomming traffic will allow."

Being prepared is a wonderful thing.

exactoroland

I'll do some research, but I went into the intersection when the light was yellow. Thanks for your ideas!

Roland

moto-one

And from now on stop on yellows...Also Remember that in our present economic times, The (it's not a quote) is to cite, to collect fines, that justifies their personnel staffing, and verifies there productivity)...But complaining about miss spelling will not get you anywhere with the court, it will get back to officer in his/her competency reviews with in the dept. And it's your responsibility to make sure that the people that are working for you are competent. Oh and once this has happen, your next ticket may not have any leeway. See were this is going.

Mark.

2002ar

Unless you have photographic evidence from, say, a traffic camera, your case is weak. A lawyer may be able to help but it will be costly.

But it doesn't hurt to show up at court and try.

toofar

your misfortune. But, how this is best handled depends on how things are handled in your local township court and any lawyer is going to know that or know how to find out. We all have family friends and clients who get tickets and calls us to ask the same questions. Anyway, think of the insurance cost of 2 pts. over paying an attorney. He or she may tell you to go by yourself if that works best, and not charge you. Anyway, you were just stuck out in the intersection when it changed and you were clearing the intersection the safest was possible, right. Judges hate to hear excuses about traffic equipment unless you are a traffic engineer. they like apologies and hearing that you were doing what you thought was the safest action. and that advice is free and worth every penny

toofar

good ideas!

paulroad

I'm no lawyer, but most traffic laws state
to slow it down and be ready to stop when its yellow. Entering the intersection when yellow was wrong.

The best you can hope for is (prior to court) ask the town prosecutor if he will adjust it to a non moving violation. in exchange for a guilty plea.